'Sanctions' sought in President's Eligibility case

WorldNet Daily ^ | Feb. 13, 2009 | Bob Unruh

[SvenMagnussen]

A high-powered team of Los Angeles attorneys representing President Obama in his effort to keep his birth certificate, college records and passport documents concealed from the public has suggested there should be "monetary sanctions" against a lawyer whose clients have brought a complaint alleging Obama doesn't qualify for the Oval Office under the Constitution's demand for a "natural born" citizen in that post.

The suggestion came in an exchange of e-mails and documents in a case brought by former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others in California. The case originally sought to have the state's electors ordered to withhold their votes for Obama until his eligibility was established. Since his inauguration, it has been amended to seek a future requirement for a vetting process, in addition to the still-sought unveiling of Obama's records.

[canaan]

I’ve heard others say they think that the maternal grandfather and BO look alike. I never saw it, myself - I think they were both tall people, but I don’t see any more than that. I guess, to me, it doesn’t prove it one way or the other. I’m not pushing for the hypothesis that he was adopted - I’m just considering the possibility that his being Stanley’s son might just be an assumption, not a fact. Or rather, it may be a fact, but we don’t actually have the evidence yet.

[Michael Michael]

Did you honestly miss the point, or do you just think you’re being clever...?

I see no valid point, as I see no tangible connection between an individual's loyalties, and whether or not the law of some other country ever considered them to be a citizen.

[canaan]

Well, my mom was pregnant with me in 1960, and she was also thin like Stanley. Pregnancy clothes are pretty obvious to spot, although I get your point about Hawaiian clothes - but the shape can still show. But mainly - even though they were both pregnant around the same time - there are lots of photos of my mom obviously pregnant, in maternity clothes. I’m curious that a birth a year later doesn’t seem to have produced any photos. Most women are really proud of their being pregnant and want to commemorate it with photos.

[canaan]

I was responding to your post about “mothers” and adoptions in Hawaii in 1961. When someone adopts a baby, they immediately become a mother or father.

[Red Steel]

That’s nonsense.

The intent further included citizens of other countries no matter where they were born from holding the highest office.

[Michael Michael]

I was responding to your post about “mothers” and adoptions in Hawaii in 1961. When someone adopts a baby, they immediately become a mother or father.

Gotcha. Sorry.

As for your post, it seemed you were trying to make the point that Dunham could have adopted Obama as a means to get around his having been born in Kenya, which would have meant he would not have been a US citizen, owing to Dunham's age at the time of his birth.

If that's not the point you were making, then disregard my comment.

[BP2]

I've also pointed that out - that the “natural born clause” is a special category all unto its own, and that it has always been interpreted to mean a child born in the US to two US citizens.

Correct. There are AT LEAST two different classes of US citizens. It's Political Correction run amok — we don't want to hurt someones feelings by telling them they don't have EXACTLY the same rights as everybody else.

Yes, as an immigrant to the US, you can become a citizen and have the same fundamental rights as any other citizen. I'm all for that IF THEY ARE NATURALIZED.

BUT if you have a parent who is clearly a citizen of another country, that's where the distinction between Citizen and Natural Born Citizen lies in regards to Art II, Sect. 1, Clause 5.

It's all about LOYALTY to the US -- first and foremost.

[unspun]

John Bingham wrote a good part of the 14th Amendment.

His position is clear on the subject. A natural born Citizen must be born in the territory to two parents who are citizens. One can read about that, here:

http://investigatingobama.blogspot.com/2008/12/donofrio-dual-citizenship-natural-born.html

[Red Steel]

The intent of the natural born clause was to prohibit naturalized citizens from holding the office of President, i.e. those who were not born here.

The founders wrote an exception for themselves in the Constitution to be eligible to serve as president since they were former subjects to the crown, and the founders who became presidents were not naturalized. I suppose you have an excuse this too?

[Chief Engineer]

Actually Ann had problems with her weight her entire life as her high school classmates mentioned and for a time it seems as though she hated her appearance when she had both braces and was overweight. If you think about it there are absolutely no photos of Ann after she left high school until she returns to HI with Jr. There are also no photos of an infant, the only baby photo of Jr which has been released is a professionally taken photo and Jr is the only one in it, I guesstimate his age in the photo as between 6 and 8 months old. The photo was released AFTER Madelyn Dunham’s death.
To take the matter of photos even further, how many first time grandparents could resist taking as many photos of their first born grandchild as possible if that grandchild lived nearby? I don’t think the Dunhams were proud of the fact that their daughter was pregnant especially when the father was a native Kenyan! Stanley Armour Dunham was so affected by what Ann had done that he mentioned to a co-worker in the 70’s that he had lived “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner”.

[BP2]

Yes it does. The intent of the Constitutional clause natural born citizen is a safeguard against loyalties to another nation besides the United States as president. Obama once a citizen of Kenya defies the 'natural born citizen' clause.

Red Steel, you are Correct.

The Natural Born Citizen clause is NOT some stodgy, old, white-man's rule to keep foreigners from holding the office of President.

The Founders wanted the President to be a NBC to ensure that the ONE person sitting at the top of the Executive branch has UNQUESTIONABLE, UNWAVERING loyalty to the United States, first and foremost.

As I've pointed out before, at one point, the delegates writing the Constitution in 1787 considered THREE "presidents" in the Executive for "checks and balances." They considered a NBC clause for Senators as well. Debating those issues, they felt that a NBC clause for Senators would limit the pool of possible candidates and could cause bad feelings with immigrants needed to "jump start" the newly-formed republic.

In the end, the Framers compromised that Senators be required to be US residents for 9 years, while striking the NBC clause for the office.

The Framers also compromised on ONE Executive vs THREE. But to ensure "checks and balances," the Framers inserted in Art II, Sect. 1, Clause 5: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..."

The NBC clause was NOT an accident, nor was it an inane rule to be restrictive to immigrants, and it certainly isn't just a "political" issue ... LOYALTY to the US is the reason the NBC clause was inserted into the Constitution for the POTUS.

You have nine Justices sitting here (internal checks and balances):

You have 535 Senator and Representatives sitting here (internal checks and balances):

and

BUT only ONE person sitting here (NO internal checks and balances):

For that 3:00 am phone call to the White House, it would be comforting to know that the ONE person sitting in that chair has had NO allegiances to any other country.

Remember this from Fight The Smears?: “As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982.”

AT BEST, Obama has openly admitted he was a dual citizen of the UK/Kenya from 1961 to 1982, nearly half of his life.

Yeah, LOYALTY is at the HEART of Natural Born Citizen for the President of the United States, and that's a BIG concern with Obama sitting in the chair.

[Hang'emAll]

After months of trying to get a copy of BO’s long form BC, what if one of the NBC lawyers got their hands on it and it said BO born in Kenya, father BO senior born in Kenya, Mother born in USA.

What do you think would be the turn of events?

[Michael Michael]

John Bingham wrote a good part of the 14th Amendment.

But he had NOTHING to do with the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

And what people fail to understand is that citizenship had been grounded firmly in the English common law in this country both before and after the Revolution.

After the revolution the states enacted reception statutes, which stated that the English common law was to prevail unless it was specifically altered by the state's constitution or legislative action.

None of the states veered from the English common law with regard to citizenship. And citizenship under the English common law is decidedly jus solis. Which means you are a citizen by fact of your birth within a state, and without regard for the citizenship of your parents, save for those parents who were ambassadors and other foreign diplomats residing in the US while in the service of their respective countries. And this too comes straight out of the English common law. Bingham's "parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty" is merely a restatement of this, and not any sort of modification or repudiation of jus solis.

Those such as Donofrio who bring up Bingham in this way, and also throw in de Vattel, are simply ignoring, or are ignorant of the well established history of the English common law in this country.

[Michael Michael]

The founders wrote an exception for themselves in the Constitution to be eligible to serve as president since they were former subjects to the crown, and the founders who became presidents were not naturalized. I suppose you have an excuse this too?

They wrote the exclusion clause because there was no United States at the time of their birth for them to have been born in to make them natural born citizens. They could only have been naturalized citizens, so they had to include the exclusion because if they hadn't, we'd have had to wait around for at least another 35 years before we could ever elect a President.

[HANG THE EXPENSE]

This sob sure as hell aint my President.FBO

[justiceseeker93]

The Natural Born Citizen clause is NOT some stodgy, old, white-man's rule...

"White man's rule"? Only a racist could even think of it in such terms!

...to keep foreigners from holding the office of President.

Naturalized citizens born abroad have a plethora of opportunities in the United States. Being president is not one of them, for good reason!

[FreeManN]

The Motion to Quash Subpoena & Motion for Sanctions may be granted. I certainly hope that should they be granted it will not deter attorneys from filing these suits in the future.

[Albertafriend]

Look at this picture at post #400 on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2148751/posts?page=400#400

This is Stanley Dunham hugging Madelyn. He looks exactly like 0, even the long bony fingers. There could be almost 0 doubt that he carries the Dunham genes. There is a lot of doubt in many minds that he has Obama Sr’s genes because there is no resemblance to him. Also I was an expectant mother in the 60s. I have I think two pictures of me when I was pregnant and wearing maternity clothes and though I was extrememly proud and thankful of the fact, I absolutely would not have wanted anyone taking pictures that showed off my tummy which wasn’t even that big with my first baby. I don’t think your Kenyan(or anywhere else)adoption has much to go on.

[visually_augmented]

canaan:”what do the laws say about getting a Hawaiian BC for a child from another country adopted by a Hawaiian citizen?”

This all depends what you want to accept as valid. If the Certification of Live Birth posted on factcheck.org is valid (which is yet to be definitively proved), you have to contend with the location of birth as Honolulu. As far as current Hawaiian law states, a new birth certificate is issued for an adopted child but only the parents would be changed from the original BC. The date and location of birth would be preserved and the original BC is kept (and sealed).

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0020.htm

Also, for the case of foreign birth, the following link shows (by current Hawaiian law), that the country of birth is preserved on the BC.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0020_0005.htm

If you believe the BC on factcheck.org to be fraudulent (likely), then almost anything could be true of the original.

[curiosity]

Hussein was fully eligible to regain his naturalized US citizenship at age 18

Nope. According to the 1952 Nationality Act, there is no loss of citizenship PROVIDED he re-establishes residency before age 18. We know Obama did this at age 10, so it's simply not an issue.

This is not going to be decided in court because there is nothing to decide. The law is crystal clear.