Posted on 02/08/2009 3:10:04 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
The universe’s birth certificate
Once you let go of the Bible as history, all Christian doctrine begins to disintegrate. Dr Nigel Leaves, the Warden and Dean of Studies at John Wollaston Anglican Theological College in Perth (Australia), provides a typical example in The God Problem: Alternatives to Fundamentalism.1 He says ‘the major factor in the waning of the Christian faith is its continuing insistence on a supernatural God—the Almighty, the lawgiver and judge.’ He considers four alternatives to ‘fundamentalism’ (i.e. believing in the God of the Bible), saying, ‘Traditional beliefs about God cannot be sustained in the light of the latest scientific and critical thinking.’ And of course the ‘latest scientific thinking’ rests on the foundation of discounting the time scale of Genesis creation.
But the Bible gives us a measured time scale, an eye-witness record, of history, a foundation far more secure than any modern scientific estimate. A measurement wins over an estimate any day!
The earth’s ‘birth certificate’
My birth certificate gives me a measured time scale for my age. It is an eye-witnessed statement that I was born on 28 January 1946, and other eye-witnesses have maintained a record of the earth having circled the sun 61 times since then. Likewise, the Bible gives us a ‘birth certificate’ for the universe—an eye-witness statement that God created it in six ordinary-length days in the time of Adam. The family histories and patriarchal ages in Genesis continue this record. God then confirmed it to Moses and wrote it down with His own finger in stone in the Sabbath Commandment (Exodus 20:11; 31:18; 32:16).
Jesus then confirmed the authenticity of the OT scriptures—in detail and in its entirety2—by correctly predicting his own death and resurrection on their foundation. That is, death entered the world only as the penalty for Adam’s sin at the Fall, and Jesus, the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5:6–21) took our place and paid that penalty for us, thus restoring us to eternal life. Once the penalty was paid, death no longer had any hold on Him and He rose from the dead. Jesus’ Resurrection authenticates Genesis as real history. The Resurrection of Jesus, an attested fact of history (Acts 17:31)3, is thus our guarantee of the measured biblical time scale for the universe (Luke 24:27,44).
Scientists must assume and infer
No scientist has any alternative or better ‘birth certificate’ for the earth or the universe. All scientific estimates of earth and universe age require a whole lot of assumptions. The key assumption is uniformitarianism, which is atheism disguised as science, because it assumes no miraculous interventions in history.4 Christians have no reason to accept, and every reason to reject, atheistic assumptions about the universe.
Jesus’ Resurrection validates the accuracy of the Bible, especially its history of Creation and Fall. No Bible scholar since Jesus has risen from the dead to validate any alternative point of view. Don’t let anyone steal from you this precious gift that God has given us in the Bible.
Argh beat me to it!!! Blast you!
Atheists exist all alone in a limited Newtonian universe...everyone else lives in a Quantum universe of limitless possibility.
Observe and believe, or not. It's your choice, but you are without excuse.
So you can do all of that in a lab?
Have you invented a time machine that allows you to go back and observe and repeat your timeline? I think not.
You are right. His imagination cannot conceive of the reward he will get for staying faithful to God’s word in the face of rapidly growing materialist hostility.
“No scientist has any alternative or better ‘birth certificate’ for the earth or the universe. All scientific estimates of earth and universe age require a whole lot of assumptions. The key assumption is uniformitarianism, which is atheism disguised as science, because it assumes no miraculous interventions in history.4 Christians have no reason to accept, and every reason to reject, atheistic assumptions about the universe. “
Using a written record that was transcribed from oral traditions is a dubious ‘birth certificate’. But that is beside the point. The age of the universe and the earth itself and all life on earth are determined by theories backed up by observable and repeatable evidence. Relying on stories written in colorful prose based off of old stories does not prove or disprove anything, it only puts question on those who rely upon it to deny scientific information put before them.
Denying science is a bigger folly than denying god. Saying gravity doesn’t exist doesn’t mean you won’t fall off the cliff.
You'd better watch what you're saying there, pal.
Is your contention observable and repeatable?
Dude, believe your lying eyes.
Go outside tonight and if the sky is clear look up at the sky with a telescope or pair of binoculars. The light of many distant stars and galaxies take 100's of millions of light years to get here, so by definition, these have to be 100's of millions of years old.
The Hubble telescope can see stars being formed billions of years ago because it can see much farther into space and can see light billions of light years away and which take billions of years to reach its lens.
When we look at distant stars we are seeing them the way they looked when the light left them not as they are right now.
Because science has gotten it right SO many times ... /sarc
The universe is shrinking. No, wait a second, no, no the universe is expanding ... yeah, that’s it.
And the Bible is likewise clear on matters of life, faith, morality, and devotion to God:
The only REAL question is whether a man or a culture accept the Living Word as authoritative -- revealing the Law of Holy God ---
Likewise promising -- in Christ alone -- the purchase of mercy, and forgiveness for all of man's transgressions against that extraordinary revelation of law--
Finally the provision of daily grace that imparts the Holy Spirit into the hearts of all who accept His terms of life -- enabling us to enjoy the coommunal relationship --
And enjoy the blessed promise of eternal life.
It's really a simple clear choice we all make -- in favor of against -- proactively or by default.
Who is on the Lord's side?
I like to point out that people today assume that all the people in ancient times were dullards. While many people were, many people today are just as simple. But then and now, it is not the simpletons that make history.
For example, it is now known that the Pentateuch was created as a poem or song. Poetry evolved in preliterate times as a mnemonic device for the accurate retention of information. But illiterate does not mean ignorant or stupid.
For example, some of the most complex philosophical questions ever devised were integrated into the Pentateuch. In his brief conversation between Moses and JHVH, Moses cut to the chase and asked the question whose answer has dominated philosophy ever since.
“I Am that I Am” (Ehyeh asher Ehyeh).
Volumes have been written about the consequences of that single statement. Martin Buber, perhaps the most influential Jewish philosopher of the 20th Century wrote his masterwork “I and Thou” to explain some of the significance of this statement. It is an easy read, and devastatingly hard to fully understand.
When published in 1923, it made a huge splash in the theological community, then was promptly forgotten by the vast majority who just didn’t get it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_thou
With that statement, JHVH identifies as a singularity. This means that JHVH can’t have a name, because there is nothing to compare to JHVH. Not with size, shape, color, smell, sound. Anything that can be labeled cannot be JHVH. There cannot be two JHVH.
In turn, according to Kabbalah, this explains the origins of the universe. JHVH wanted to see if there was anything that isn’t JHVH, so JHVH created the universe as a mirror.
I don’t claim that science has all the answers, nor do I claim it to always be right. The saving grace of science is the ability and willingness to question orthodoxy, sometimes proving it wrong, others proving it right. Religion leaves no room for admitting error or findings of new evidence. Science and religion are mutually incompatible. Leave the creation of the universe to people way smarter than you or I.
Amusing debate.
Note how it’s always the God of Christianity they blast when attacking creation.
You never hear of them slamming the Muslim theory, whatever the heck it is.
Try the Native American theories about foxes and eagles and crawling out of the ground creation stories. Attack those why don’t you, weenies.
You know, diversity.
“Once you let go of the Bible as history, all Christian doctrine begins to disintegrate.”
If you read the bible as history I think you miss the point. When Jesus fed several thousand people with fish from a basket he wasn’t trying to tell us about himself. It is beside the point whether he actually did it or not, the point of the story is about faith, not about the ability of Jesus to perform miracles.
Yes, yes, yes. I know all that. My question was can you create your own Big Bang?
One point of the miracles is that faith doesn’t come from them. Saving faith is a gift of God.
So if Newton is correct, there must also be a way to speed up light, which would imply that there is something faster than the speed of light. We just haven't discovered it yet. That's the problem with scientific "fact." It's based only on what is known/seen/observed. It leaves no room for what is unknown/not seen/not observed. Science revises its opinion when new observable data becomes available - which is the only intelligent position to take.
That's why faith is so important to Christians. We believe by faith because we know that what is currently unseen will one day provide the answers that unite science and faith. Science and religion are at odds only when those who follow one believe that the other is impossible.
Malachi 3:6 I the Lord do not change.
Ping to #39
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