Inflation Hypothesis Doesn't Measure Up to New Data (growing body of evidence contradicts Big Bang)

ICR ^ | January 30, 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

[GodGunsGuts]

Since the Big Bang story of the origin of the universe has been refuted by a host of external observations and internal contradictions,1 secular science has been forced to postulate additional, exceedingly improbable events to keep it afloat. One of these is “inflation,” which attempts to explain the apparent uniformity of the universe.2 But new observations by the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe are forcing cosmologists to revamp inflation, at the cost of inventing yet another miraculous event to prop it up...

[metmom]

The Bible itself makes no specific reference to the age of the earth. It’s been calculated by men by deduction from the genealogies.

[hosepipe]

Young earth or Old earth ignores that time may not even be lineal/linear..
And probably isn't..

But those identifying with the flesh seem to require it for that worldview..

For if eternity future is possible eternity past is mandatory..
How can you have one without the other?..

Maybe young and old earth are both possible..
Earth may have chapters/eons/ages/epics/sagas/dimensions/realms..
With MORE to come..

[Diamond]

If you are a Christian who is basing your salvation (or at least your sanctification) on your correct reading of the "signs of the times" (rather than on the work of Christ) then you will be likely to adopt a YEC view because this fits in with your view of the future.

I don't know any Christians who based their salvation or sanctification on eschatology. There might be some, but I've really never encountered one. Christians are more likely to take the six days of Creation in the normal, literal sense in which they believe it was originally intended - for Scriptural, grammatical, historical and/or theological reasons. For example, I have heard it said that the very work of Christ to which you refer; namely, Christ as the Second Adam conquering sin and death, is unintelligible if sin did not enter the world through one man, if death did not come through sin, and that is really not the way death came to all men because mankind had somehow already been dying for a very long time before Adam, the first man.

As a linguistic example, and not speaking for anyone else, I personally cannot bring myself to think Moses really meant, "Six indefinite periods you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh indefinite period is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six indefinite periods the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh indefinite period. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath indefinite period and made it holy."

Cordially,

[CottShop]

[[How did light from stars/galaxies far more than 6000 light-years distant from us reach Earth?]]

There are several perfectly reasonable explanations- none of which I’m sure you’ll even concider, as you’re biased towards an old age earth- but there you have it.

Again htough- Light years has NOTHING to do with faulty dating methods that are NOT accurate past 6000 or so years, nor does it have anythign to do with hte fact that old ag estimates are based on pure assumptions and a priori beleif

[CottShop]

[[There has been zero young earth “evidence” produced by anyone who is not a disciple of Bishop Ussher...

There have been plenty of “Yabbuts” — but not a single shred of replicable or measurable actual evidence.]

IF you refuse ot discuss htis with any sense of intellectual honesty- I’ll be doen with you- This is an assinine statement!

[CottShop]

Agreed- Macroevolutionary science is rife with blatant deceit and fraud. And yes, it appears peopel are finally starting to wake up to that fact and demand objective science be restored.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your question, dear GodGunsGuts!

What is your understanding of time with respect to Adam’s existence before he was “banished to mortality”?

By my discernment of Genesis chapters 1 to 3, Adam was created in the spiritual realm which is by definition “beyond” the physical realm, i.e. "beyond" space/time.

However, God reveals in Scripture that man was created in the 6^th “day” of Creation, relative to the inception which would put Adam's creation, using relativity and inflationary theory, within the last one quarter billion years from our space/time coordinates on earth.

Of course, as with the Temple, Ark and Holy Mountain, there could have been types of Adam (physical men) on earth. Indeed, the historical record suggests that is the case. But Adam was made a living soul by the breath of God. (Genesis 2, I Cor 15:35-50) I will leave it at that for now, because sidebars on death, days, prophecy, etc. could draw us away from the heart of your question.

Or to put it another way, time is geometric. It is one of the four dimensions that we can perceive by our vision and minds (three of space, one of time.) By geometric physics, we can perceive of the possibility of additional dimensions of both space and time – whether compactified (Kaluza/Klein) or expanded (Wesson.)

Interestingly, just one additional temporal (time) dimension belies our sense of time passing, an arrow of time. In that model, past present and future exist concurrently – and obviously, physical causality can be reversed. But that too can get into additional sidebars on both theology and science.

Most importantly, space/time does not pre-exist, it is created as the universe expands. Moreover, that expansion shows there was a beginning of real space and real time. And that was the most theological statement ever to come out of modern science. (Jastrow) "In the beginning God created..." - Genesis 1

An oftentimes overlooked point of relativity is that the speed limit of the universe (speed of light) does not apply to commoving coordinates. Thus a photon sent to us from a star which was a billion light years away at the time – may not arrive for ten billion light years.

For the photon travelling at the speed of light, no time elapsed (null path.) It neither slowed down nor sped up – but space/time itself expanded while it was in route. From our perspective, it took longer to get here.

And under the inflationary model, space/time itself expanded faster than the speed of light.

[Alamo-Girl]

Young earth or Old earth ignores that time may not even be lineal/linear.. And probably isn't.. But those identifying with the flesh seem to require it for that worldview..

Indeed. Physical evidence is just that, physical.

[CottShop]

[[But what if the modern Big Bang cosmology is based on an ideology that artificially rules out distant starlight from reaching a young earth, a young solar system, and a young Milky Way?]]

Interestingthat you shoudl ask- because quite frankly, there is evidnece that starlight REFUTES what big bang proponents have claiemd all along- I posted the evidnece to this in another htread awhile back-.... BUT, ever hte apologists, old age earth’ers have proposed an ‘explanation’ to dismiss htis problem... They’ve invented yet another fantasy scenario to ‘explain’ away hte problem.

Never udnerestimate the ability of God deniers to explain away hte obvious- their imaginations are unlimitted.

[Diamond]

Xrays travel at a speed that are magnitudes greater than the speed of light.

You didn't just say that, did you?

Cordially,

[Alamo-Girl]

Oops. I misphrased this:

Thus a photon sent to us from a star which was a billion light years away at the time – may not arrive for ten billion light years.

Should have been:

Thus a photon sent to us from a star which was a billion light years away at the time – may not arrive for ten billion years. The star itself may no longer exist when we receive that photon.

[GodGunsGuts]

Yep, for instance, they seem blissfully unaware that the gravitational time dilation that would result from the formation of a universe with a center and an edge could easily account for distant starlight reaching a young earth. As is so often the case, they criticize what they don’t understand.

[texmexis best]

It was used as an illustration of things that would have to be true if YEC’ers are correct. Nothing more than that.

It is absurd statement and that is the point.

[CottShop]

[[Yep, for instance, they seem blissfully unaware that the gravitational time dilation that would result from the formation of a universe with a center and an edge could easily account for distant starlight reaching a young earth. As is so often the case, they criticize what they don’t understand.]]

Yep- I’ll look for that link- the ‘explanation’ that attempts to dismiss this problem was quite amusing- and beleive it ornot, the article was written in one of hteir own ‘science’ publicaitons outlining hte top ten problems with macroevolution hypothesis and old age hypothesis’- but again, they were quick to link to ‘new studies’ that fudge the facts to dismiss the problems.

[CottShop]

[[By my discernment of Genesis chapters 1 to 3, Adam was created in the spiritual realm which is by definition “beyond” the physical realm, i.e. “beyond” space/time.]]

Could you expand on htis? Are you talking about Christ being Adam in a spritual sense?

[[However, God reveals in Scripture that man was created in the 6th “day” of Creation, relative to the inception which would put Adam’s creation, using relativity and inflationary theory, within the last one quarter billion years from our space/time coordinates on earth]]

Are you suggesting hte earth is therefore 1/4 billion years old? Or are you intimating that this is hte conclusion based on an assumption invovled in inflationary theory which conflicts with what is observed?

[texmexis best]

I this were the case, why then would we be able to see second generation stars that are made up of numerous elements rather than just hydrogen?

They probably formed of material that was created in a nova. Like our solar system.

First generation starts are all hydrogen, minus the byproducts of fusion.

The bigger the star (beyond a certain point) the faster it blows up.

[CottShop]

[[As a linguistic example, and not speaking for anyone else, I personally cannot bring myself to think Moses really meant, “Six indefinite periods you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh indefinite period is a Sabbath to the LORD your God]]

Well put- People taking God’s word out of context often are loathe to admit that other passages in God’s word which back up the original intent mean what they mean. Great long ‘explanations’ are often given to support wonky ideology, yet a cursory examination of God’s word reveals how off base they really are- You’re example is spot on in revealing how those hwo tried to contend that the 7 days didn’t really mean 7 days went to lengths that simply can not be taken seriously

[CottShop]

[[I this were the case, why then would we be able to see second generation stars that are made up of numerous elements rather than just hydrogen?]]

One word- Binocular vision

And I’m sticking to that!-

I’m not versed in the hypothesis’ about starlight- but I do know there are several explanations that are perfectly reasonable- you’ll find htem on answersingensis.org- just type starlight in the searhc field- you’ll find links to hte technical explanations of different hypothesis’ put forth

[CottShop]

[[Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath indefinite period and made it holy.”]]

And don’t forget- that after having established this so called ‘sabbath indefinate period’, He hten required that everyone too rest on this indefinate period Sabbath. I guess it was quite hte game back hten tryign to figure out when this indefinate period ended so people could get back to work supporting hteir families. Must have been quite the task to store up enough supplies and money to get htem through all the numerous indefinate periods of hte sabbath.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your reply and questions, dear CottShop!

Could you expand on htis? Are you talking about Christ being Adam in a spritual sense?

No, I'm not talking about Christ being Adam in a spiritual sense - though I did mention I Cor 15:35-50.

I expanded on this a bit further in an earlier post. This was a follow-up.

Are you suggesting hte earth is therefore 1/4 billion years old? Or are you intimating that this is hte conclusion based on an assumption invovled in inflationary theory which conflicts with what is observed?

I was speaking of the age of the universe by using relativity and the inflationary model.

From our space/time coordinates the earth is about 4+ billion years old and from the inception space/time coordinates the earth was created on Day 3.

When we use relativity and the inflationary model, as Jewish Physicist Gerald Schroeder does on the above link, the two are not mutually exclusive. Both are true.