Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Proportionality and Disproportionality: A Guide to Arguments about Gaza
Israel's Right to Exist ^ | 01/08/2008 | Polarik

Posted on 01/08/2009 7:14:24 AM PST by Polarik

A ceasefire between Israel and Hamas seems imminent, although how long it will last is anyone's guess. One thing is fairly certain: even as the guns fall silent the charges and counter-charges of violations of international law will continue. Already the airwaves are full of talk that Israel's "disproportionate" response is a flagrant violation of international law. The Palestinian Authority has claimed, in addition, that Israel's actions constitute "aggression against the Palestinian people," and a "crime against humanity. "(See CNN's Jim Clancy's interview with the Palestinian Authority's Ambassador to the United Nations, Riyan Mansour, January 3, 2009). In this climate, it might be wise to take a deep breath and consider international law not as a propaganda tool but as a guide to reasoned behavior. Here is what such an approach reveals:

1. In international law, the concepts of proportionality and necessity are intertwined. If the action is not necessary for a legitimate military objective (security against armed attack), then it is inherently disproportionate. Was Israel's response to more than a thousand rocket attacks by Hamas, which were bound to continue upon Hamas' refusal to renew the ceasefire with Israel, a legitimate military objective?

The international community has recognized that they are developing nuclear weapons to give them that capability. Iran's proxy troops are Hezbollah in Lebanon to the north of Israel, with a capacity to fire tens of thousands of Iranian manufactured rockets wherever it chooses; and Hamas in Gaza to Israel's south, able to direct sufficient indiscriminate firepower to intimidate a million Israeli citizens into living lives that vacillate between air raid sirens and the rush to shelters. In this context, an Israeli military response to Hamas' decision to let the rockets rain again was clearly justifiable.

(Excerpt) Read more at israelsright.blogtownhall.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gaza; hamas; israel; palestinians

1 posted on 01/08/2009 7:14:24 AM PST by Polarik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Polarik

In war, a “proportional response” would seem generally to be exactly what one does NOT want to make.

Conflicts end when one side “wins,” by crushing the other, by degrading the enemy’s ability and/or will to fight.


2 posted on 01/08/2009 7:26:48 AM PST by cvq3842
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cvq3842

A father wouldn’t be much of a man if someone kept shooting at his house where his children lived and didn’t do something about it for fear of what the neighbors would say.


3 posted on 01/08/2009 7:28:13 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MrB

Absolutely!

But unfortunately, much of the world doesn’t seem to believe Israel has a right to exist at all. How else to explain MORE attacks, rather than fewer, after Israel gave up Gaza? (I’m sure there is some rationale being floated, but I would bet a month’s pay it’s by people who question Israel’s right to exist.)


4 posted on 01/08/2009 7:32:04 AM PST by cvq3842
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: cvq3842
I think that there is widespread confusion as to the meaning of "proportionality"

3. Proportionality. Soldiers may only use force proportional to the end they seek. They must restrain their force to that amount appropriate to achieving their aim or target. Weapons of mass destruction, for example, are usually seen as being out of proportion to legitimate military ends.

In the present case, the "military end" which Israel seeks is putting an end to the barrage of Qassam rockets. "Proportionality" DOES NOT mean, as some folks on this forum seem to think, that Israel is limited to launching the equivalent of Qassam rockets. Indeed, doing so would violate the principle of "Discrimination". Rather, "Proportionality" means that Israel must use force appropriate to destroying the Qassam rocket launch sites and the associated communications, command, control, and intelligence infrstructure. This is, in fact, what Israel appears to be doing. Nuking Gaza into oblivion, as some of the more bellicose on this forum suggest, would violate both Proportionality and Discrimination, and would be a hideous crime.

5 posted on 01/08/2009 7:44:27 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Polarik

From a friend in Israel on this very topic(notice the disdain for Sarkozy):

There have been numerous articles, learned and not so learned, decrying the use of the term ‘disproportionate’ in describing Israel’s response to eight years of missile attacks from Gaza. My own feeling is that ‘inadequate’ would be a better word, especially in light of today’s news about a three-hour cease fire which is clearly the precursor to leaving before the job is done.

Proper use of the term would be, say, “French President Sarcasti’s marriage to a super-model after dumping a plain wife is clearly a disproportionate act.”

Keeping in mind that the killers of Jews in Mumbai were Pakistanis and not Palestinians, and those who blew up the Buenos Aires Jewish Center were Iranians and not Palestinians, it is clear the war is not between Israelis and Palestinians but between Jews and Muslims. Given that there are some ten million Jews and one billion Muslims, proportionality would call for one thousand Muslim deaths for every Jew killed.


6 posted on 01/08/2009 7:44:36 AM PST by goldylight
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Polarik
The Palestinian Authority has claimed, in addition, that Israel's actions constitute "aggression against the Palestinian people,"

Snore. As does any statement on any subject whatsoever coming from any "Palistinian" or mouthpiece.

The only thing that keeps me from muting the TV when a "Palisinian" comes on the screen is to wonder how long it will take him to work "aggression" or "occupation" into his answer or statement. It's never more than 20 seconds.

7 posted on 01/08/2009 7:48:39 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cvq3842
A “proportional” response would be to do to the enemy exactly what he is trying to do to you. Do it first, do it fastest, and do it more often, until he cries uncle and quits.
8 posted on 01/08/2009 7:53:18 AM PST by chesley (A pox on both their houses. I've voted for my last RINO.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ArrogantBustard

Good points.


9 posted on 01/08/2009 8:03:09 AM PST by cvq3842
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: chesley

Thanks.


10 posted on 01/08/2009 8:03:34 AM PST by cvq3842
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: cvq3842
Conflicts end when one side “wins,” by crushing the other, by degrading the enemy’s ability and/or will to fight.

Ditto...and they do NOT return land to the aggressor.

What this war is all about:


11 posted on 01/08/2009 3:33:15 PM PST by Polarik (Polarik's Principle: "A forgery created to prove a claim repudiates that claim")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Polarik; SunkenCiv; justiceseeker93

Ping.


12 posted on 01/08/2009 4:43:57 PM PST by LucyT (Don't go wobbly now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

Thanks LucyT.


13 posted on 01/08/2009 6:24:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (First 2009 Profile update Tuesday, January 6, 2009___________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson