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Mumbai photographer: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera. Armed police would not fire back
Belfast Telegraph ^ | 29 November 2008 | Jerome Taylor

Posted on 11/29/2008 11:17:52 AM PST by Leisler

It is the photograph that has dominated the world's front pages, casting an astonishing light on the fresh-faced killers who brought terror to the heart of India's most vibrant city. Now it can be revealed how the astonishing picture came to be taken by a newspaper photographer who hid inside a train carriage as gunfire erupted all around him.

Sebastian D'Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, whose offices are just opposite the city's Chhatrapati Shivaji station, heard the gunfire erupt and ran towards the terminus. "I ran into the first carriage of one of the trains on the platform to try and get a shot but couldn't get a good angle, so I moved to the second carriage and waited for the gunmen to walk by," he said. "They were shooting from waist height and fired at anything that moved. I briefly had time to take a couple of frames using a telephoto lens. I think they saw me taking photographs but theydidn't seem to care."

The gunmen were terrifyingly professional, making sure at least one of them was able to fire their rifle while the other reloaded. By the time he managed to capture the killer on camera, Mr D'Souza had already seen two gunmen calmly stroll across the station concourse shooting both civilians and policemen, many of whom, he said, were armed but did not fire back. "I first saw the gunmen outside the station," Mr D'Souza said. "With their rucksacks and Western clothes they looked like backpackers, not terrorists, but they were very heavily armed and clearly knew how to use their rifles.

"Towards the station entrance, there are a number of bookshops and one of the bookstore owners was trying to close his shop," he recalled. "The gunmen opened fire and the shopkeeper fell down."

But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. "There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back."

As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. "I couldn't believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to stay put."

The militants returned inside the station and headed towards a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: "I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; cowardlycops; india; leo; mohammedanism; mumbai
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To: Spktyr

OK I vote we use whatever city you live in.

IMO its far better to take them out where they live and not where we live.


221 posted on 11/30/2008 3:27:15 AM PST by driftdiver (No More Obama! - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: Ciexyz

Well then we had better ask god for some fortitude because we are at war and i intend to help us win.


222 posted on 11/30/2008 3:39:01 AM PST by fabian
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To: Leisler

The off duty officer helped keep him cornered three or four of the local swat team actual killed him.


223 posted on 11/30/2008 5:04:31 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: driftdiver
There are officers in every dept who would have no clue what to do but hide and wish for the best.

But on the other hand there are those who have combat experience and those who practice and are gun persons who well take aim and kill those who need it.

Who well be there when it starts who knows the best might be on Vacation or there days off.

224 posted on 11/30/2008 5:12:00 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner

I’m a big fan of citizens carrying. Not many would, but enough would.

I’m worried about a Beslan school type situation. Children and liberals. Way too open.


225 posted on 11/30/2008 5:42:24 AM PST by Leisler ("Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever. " Lenin)
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To: Leisler

Your arrogance stands in stead for facts.

As I said, “End of argument.”

Go learn about men and about life.


226 posted on 11/30/2008 6:02:03 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Life is tough. It is even tougher if you are stupid--John Wayne)
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To: Leisler
So am I most of the time if only one or two of the terrorists would be be killed at the beginning it would disrupt there plans so many would be saved.

They count on not meeting to much resistance at the start.

227 posted on 11/30/2008 6:27:17 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: Leisler
We really don't have enough info to judge.

But we do know that this happened in a crowded train station & the terrorists were carrying rifles.

We don't know how many police were on the scene or how they were engaged in the scene as it unfolded nor do we know how the police were armed outside of them having 'guns'. Pistols? Shotguns? Rifles? And, I doubt that any of the police were trained snipers.

And, we have only this photographer's story. I'm not sure he can know everything about what every P.O. on the scene may have or may not have done.

228 posted on 11/30/2008 6:33:39 AM PST by elli1
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To: Paladin2
Yep...Hedge Apples.

Among other names...........

229 posted on 11/30/2008 7:08:53 AM PST by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: Leisler
Fort Benning Infantry School classical “fire and maneuver” execution.
230 posted on 11/30/2008 7:22:27 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: All
For those debating the actions of the Indian police, here's some food for thought. Caveat: I know next to nothing about guns, military or even police tactics.

There are several 'types' of Indian police with differing levels of training, duties and capabilities. The cops at the train stations (as the ones being discussed here) are part of what is known as the Railway Police. They are nothing - in terms of arms, capability or even training, like the police/ swat teams I have seen in the NYT Grand Central Station (for example).

I am not even sure these guys even had bullets; basically there are around in a 'here I am' kind of way. Their role - handling petty criminals (pickpockets), sorting out altercations etc.

I still think the cops should have reacted so the criticism is fair; but it may give some context to say that theses guys were like the officials I have seen outside schools in the US directing traffic (forget the term for them). Also most (99%) of cops here have antiquated equipment to begin with.

As for the other types of cops, just want to note that three of Mumbai's top police officers lost their lives leading from the front a few days ago. There are several other kinds of cops.

231 posted on 11/30/2008 8:13:22 AM PST by neither-nor
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To: driftdiver

“What the Indian cops came against was a trained military unit. I doubt most of them had the training to know how to respond.”

What kind of special training is needed?

1. Point frontsight at center of mass.

2. Squeeze trigger until BG drops.

3. Repeat as necessary.


232 posted on 11/30/2008 8:45:27 AM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: Shooter 2.5
They were firing from the waist...

A luxury one can afford only when no one is shooting back.

233 posted on 11/30/2008 9:15:42 AM PST by gundog (When the SHTF, it will not be evenly distributed.)
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To: Paladin2

I can see you’ve been there!


234 posted on 11/30/2008 10:15:54 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Obama: Carter's only chance to avoid going down in history as the worst U.S. president ever.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

“What kind of special training is needed?”

So I guess we can save all that money we spend training our military. just give em a gun and tell them to squeeze the trigger.


235 posted on 11/30/2008 10:40:59 AM PST by driftdiver (No More Obama! - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: driftdiver

Um, we were talking about a game set in the 1100 and 1200s, and how you defeat the Mongol tactics of the time.


236 posted on 11/30/2008 11:54:19 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Republic of Texas; Godzilla; Squantos; judicial meanz; Old Sarge; MamaDearest; Cindy; Mossad1967; ..
I doubt any local police force would stand up against what was basically a Special Op’s force.

Terrorists are in no way to be considered "special operations forces!" They're armed bozos willing to die just so they can execute Jihad for a murdering pedophile that lived and died 1500 years ago. Jeeze have you ever seen the AQ "training videos?" A group of tango's run room to room in a deserted building somewhere in the middle of nowhere west Pakistan and toss grenades before entering to spray rooms with AK47s on full auto. No coordination, no fluidity, no cover or concealment. Let's just run around and slaughter the sheep! Got news, my IDPA club could smoke 'em!

This is a run up, this change in tactic away from suicide vests to firearms and grenades. This one is coming SOON to a crowded shopping mall near you. The tango that was captured (too chicken to OFF himself before capture like a good little Jihadi) said that the goal was to kill 5000. Easily accomplished in a multi-pronged attack on several packed malls around the country in certain target areas where there already exist sleeper cells. I'll bet this one has been planned since the 2004 election. My guess is that sometime in the next 25 days we're gonna get hit. In exactly this fashion.

Likely results? Well if the terrorists use assault rifles and hand grenades, you'll see the new President take his hand off the Bible or Quiran and sign already passed legislation that will not only ban but confiscate so called Assault Weapons lawfully owned by a lot of Americans. He'll have a mandate and it will take a lot of pressure off him to act in a positive manner on the economy. That operation will allow him to soften the focus on a lot of campaign promises. The eyes of the populace will be focused on those nutty gun owners. I promise you, he'll have 95% of his liberal base and a whole lot of independents (fiscal conservatives, social liberals) standing to back his play.

The wild card? Armed citizens ready to act like the SHEEPDOGS they are. We can dissipate the effects by standing ready to act when the first ALLAH HU AKBAR splits the air and the gunfire follows. The OBAMANATION will have to pause just a little bit if an attack is even partially stymied by armed sheepdogs ready to meet the threat.

237 posted on 11/30/2008 12:40:47 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier

Good points.....valid points. This murdering trash was far from a trained paramilitary unit. They were a gang of idiots in a sheep pen as ya suggest !

Here is a PDF version of the Grossman Book excerpt that I have “among others” for free download on my FR homepage.

http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/files/sheepwolvessheepdogs.pdf


238 posted on 11/30/2008 2:13:51 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Leisler
While in Assam, India about twelve years ago and we had an
Army squad to protect the dynamite on a shot hole crew.

Their rifles were very old bolt action that looked WWI issue.

In the mornings when the crew went to get dynamite and caps
we had to wake them up.

239 posted on 11/30/2008 4:03:47 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Obama, Change America will die for.)
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To: OregonRancher
“In a strange or unusual situation, these people will refuse to act for fear of coming under scrutiny and the possibility of losing their rice bowl.”

bureaucratic empires tend to be that way. That was how the old Spanish empire was when a few hundred buccaneers under Henry Morgan sacked Panama City in the 1600’s. Even though the Governor of Panama warned of the possible attack for two years, and begged for more troops, then did nearly everything humanly possible to defend his city, the government held an investigation that lasted for years, with him in nasty jails for the who period. I believe he was finally exonerated.
240 posted on 11/30/2008 5:19:08 PM PST by marktwain
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