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The Obama Citizenship Question - - - Have We Been Suckered In By Hillary And The DNC?
a long night of thought | MB26

Posted on 07/13/2008 8:40:29 AM PDT by MindBender26

The Obama Citizenship Question - - - Have We Been Suckered In By Hillary And The DNC?

Conservatives have been arguing about Obama possibly not being constitutionally qualified to be President. Some claim he is not a “natural born citizen.” Besides distracting us from the real issue of teaching America what a disaster an Obama presidency would be, we have been focused on this issue.

But stop and think for a moment. Even if we are right, have we been doing Hillary’s work for her?

Step back for a moment and consider some Realpolitics.

Remember, we Conservatives do not elect the President. Neither do the hard line Dems. Regardless of who is the candidate, about 40% of the public will vote D, and 40% will vote R.

The deciding vote is always cast by that 20% in the middle, the swing voters.

Often female, they are usually late deciders and most importantly, make up their minds on Maslow type issues; Is my world safe? Is my country safe? Is my family economically, militarily and morally safe… and safer with the Republican or Democrat candidate?

Also remember that the Dems have never been a majority party. They often put together winning coalitions of multiple minorities, but they don’t begin with a majority.

Now, move back to July 2007, a year ago. You are an RNC leader. Who do you want to face?

A very savvy, popular female senator, especially popular with the swing voters, or an unknown, inexperienced, untested, Muslim, Black first term senator?

She would get these minority Dem voters in the GENERAL Election (the only one that really counts.)

1) Traditional blue collar Dem-Labor voters (the ones Reagan took away.) 2) The Fuzzy Left vote 3) The Radical vote 4) The Black vote (Blacks would vote for Charles Manson if he were running on the Dem ticket) 5) The Youth vote (although they talk a lot, they don’t vote much in Generals) 6) The Gay-Lesbian vote (she would have that “secret” vote VERY strongly, and get bazillions of dollars from them.) 7) The Soccer Mom vote 8) The “hurt, downtrodden female” vote

In the GENERAL, our Islamic Black Senator would get

1) The Fuzzy Left vote 2) The Radical vote 3) The Black vote 4) The Youth vote

More importantly, all her baggage is known and already factored in to her favorability ratings. On the other hand, most of his baggage is not and they are Maslow type or bread and butter issue negatives.

His negatives are still ready to be used against him. The serious coverage of Tony Rezko not even started. The Rev. Wright is still circling the field of battle, ready to drop huge electoral fear bombs on those swing voters. The Senator’s negatives scare us. His negatives are new, and there are still many yet to come to the public attention.

Sure he makes a great speech… but that wears out. It would certainly wear out long before a General. His victory in the Primaries was dependent in a large part on the anti-Hillary vote, not on the pro-Obama vote.

Even the old pros at the DNC quietly know this. Their current line about Obama’s popularity is… “Up fast, down fast… just like Bill Clinton’s weenie”

But remember, you are a Republican leader trying to get that MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SWING VOTER, (not the FReeper types.)

Now, move forward Mr. Leader, it’s 2008. We got our wish. The Dems did it to themselves again. This is 1972 all over again. The far-left Dem primary voters have chosen a far-left candidate who appeals to the far-left Dems, the ones who vote in the Primaries, but in the long run he has little real long-term critical appeal anywhere else.

Now, how are you going to beat him in the General?

You are going to wrap him in the Reverend Wright and his hate of White people. Every time they breathe, they will think of Wright. Far-left Dems may have "forgiven and forgotten” Rev. Wright… but we’re going to ensure MOR voters NEVER forget him and his hate.

Speaking about hate, we haven’t even started with ACORN and Obama’s work for them yet. How about Black Reparations. How about his ongoing association with murdering terrorists like Bill Ayers, American terrorists who wish they could kill more Americans all over again.

How about “Military experience? Can Obama even spell "G.I.”? Taxes, terrorism, taxes, crime, taxes, government-directed healthcare, radical Supreme Court judges, did I mention higher, crippling taxes…. over and over and over again.

Untested, inexperienced, a tax and spend, radical, Black Muslim… oh, I’m sorry, did I say Black Muslim… Of course, I meant Islamic Black Democrat. I’m so sorry…. (blush)!!!

And we repeat it over and over and over again

In the GENERAL, he is so much easier to beat than the Hildabeast…. and thank goodness she lost the Primaries.

There is no way she and Bill could pull some political shenanigans and get the nomination now without rioting in the streets… (Chicago 1968 all over again, which guaranteed the Nixon win.)

But wait… If somehow Obama is found to be legally disqualified, who else could they turn to? The Hildabeast of course! Now she is tanned, rested and ready… she never officially dropped out of the race. And it wouldn’t be her who got poor Mr. Obama thrown out of the race. It would be those nasty Republicans and Conservatives!!!

All of a sudden, Obama wouldn’t be the Messiah anymore, but Hillary would be “Our Lady of Virginal Wonderfulness”

Think of it like a Super Bowl. The primaries were the regular season and the playoffs to decide who pays in the Big Game. The Big Game (the General election, the only one that really counts) hasn’t started yet! The MOR voters are on summer break. They won’t get really interested in politics until mid-September. As FReepers, we’re interested in politics and elections all the time, because we are interested in the long term future of our country,,, but not the Sheeple. For the Sheeple, the primaries are over and it’s summertime, kids at the beach or pool, days off, etc.

The only reason there is any attention is because the media is driving it for ratings, because with Iraq settling down, they don’t have anything else to talk about, and politics drives ratings.

But in the world of Realpolitics, in the world of political reality, in the area of what will matter a year from now, we’re still in the pre-game show!

The points don’t count yet.

So, lay off the citizenship thing, at least for now. Let’s make sure Obama gets the nomination, then beat him during the General, on a hundred real issues!

Let’s not get him out now while they can still run in a substitute. Keep the citizenship thing in our quiver, so if by some strange reason Obama won, we can use it then, when it counts, on the offhand chance it is real.

Stop doing Hillary’s work for her. Let’s not let this citizenship thing become Operation Chaos running three month too long. If he goes out now, we get Hillary! We may hate her, but the Sheeple do not!

Don’t do Hillary and Bill’s Rovearian work for them, We want Obama… on their side, as their public face, image and candidate in the General!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2008; hillary; obama
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To: jacquej

The date of her getting a SS was not in questions as when I was born in 1959 my folks get my SS for Brother and Sister a couple of years later and our SS#’s are in sequence. My comment was she evidently got if for perhaps the purpose of getting a passport. I am not sure what was required for a passport in 1959-1960


61 posted on 07/13/2008 1:17:13 PM PDT by ncfool (Barack show us the birth certificate. Obama the Manchurian Candidate .)
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To: mkjessup
And Kennedy, Roosevelt and Clinton should have produced their medical records.

Kennedy should have produced the papers from his first marriage.

Eisenhower should have told us about Kay and Mamie's drinking.

W should have told us about the DWI

Clinton should have told us about his long trips behind the Iron Curtain...

The list is endless.

62 posted on 07/13/2008 1:18:52 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: MindBender26

“You are kidding, are you not? You are willing to participate in something that benefits the Clintons?”

McCain getting elected this year benefits the Clintons, as Hillary can run in 2012. Do you intend to vote for Barack Obama?

If not, you should probably tone down on the hyperbole.


63 posted on 07/13/2008 1:20:28 PM PDT by COgamer
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To: SE Mom
"I’ve done a great deal of reading and research on the whole birth certificate mess- and conclude only that SOMETHING is amiss- though precisely what- I can’t say definitively."

Something does seem amiss. As far as I know, no American friends of Obama's youth, his mother, his mother's friends, grandmother or any member of his American family has come publicly forward to reminisce about him growing up, share anecdotes, etc. It seems his grandmother, who I understand is still alive, seems to be totally incommunicado, by design.

I'm trying to come up with some sort of explanation as to why his campaign would dissemble on this issue. I do not think it's 'rope a dope' by the Obama campaign. From what I've read, there are no birth announcements from the two hospitals on Oahu in the newspapers of the time. I really don't think his middle name or whether his parents were married would be worth deceit. Illegitimacy or a politically correct Islamic middle name would be points of pride for the modern Democrats.

So, I'm throwing out a possibility for consideration; that Stanley Ann Dunham was not his biological mother. Obama was actually born in Kenya to one of the African wives of his father. The father brought him here, probably accompanied by one of his wives, and handed him over to his "mother", Stanley Ann Dunham. The motive was simply to have him passed-off as an American citizen, and nothing more.

Facts that would refute the above would include a strong familial resemblance between Obama and his mother and other American family members. Has anyone seen pictures and seen a resemblance?
64 posted on 07/13/2008 1:30:02 PM PDT by KamperKen
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To: COgamer
Why is it that everyone here has to look at 1% of every issue?

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

If not nominated, Hillary is finished. She has no desire to be 1 of 100 in a Big Boys Club, most of whom actively dislike her.

She can't run for Gov of NY against a sitting Black, Blind, Moral Reprobate Dem Gov.

If she is not nominated, she will resign shortly after the inauguration. She will retire her own foundation, $10,000,000 a year in speeches. $5,000,000 from Boards, another $5,000,000 as an of-counsel rainmaker for w Wall Street / DC law firm.

She can give up any pretense of a marriage to Bill, be seen with her lovers, keep whatever profile she wants, travel and more.

65 posted on 07/13/2008 1:44:49 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: COgamer
Why is it that everyone here has to look at 1% of every issue?

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

If not nominated, Hillary is finished. She has no desire to be 1 of 100 in a Big Boys Club, most of whom actively dislike her.

She can't run for Gov of NY against a sitting Black, Blind, Moral Reprobate Dem Gov.

If she is not nominated, she will resign shortly after the inauguration. She will retire her own foundation, $10,000,000 a year in speeches. $5,000,000 from Boards, another $5,000,000 as an of-counsel rainmaker for w Wall Street / DC law firm.

She can give up any pretense of a marriage to Bill, be seen with her lovers, keep whatever profile she wants, travel and more.

NOT BE A MEDIA TARGET, and more

66 posted on 07/13/2008 1:45:44 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: KamperKen

All your points may be right... but still, let’s ensure he, not the Hildabeast is the nominee.


67 posted on 07/13/2008 1:47:08 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: MindBender26
And Kennedy, Roosevelt and Clinton should have produced their medical records.

Kennedy should have produced the papers from his first marriage.

Irrelevant.

Eisenhower should have told us about Kay and Mamie's drinking.


Irrelevant.

W should have told us about the DWI


Irrelevant.

Clinton should have told us about his long trips behind the Iron Curtain...


Irrelevant.

The list is endless.


Yes, the list of irrelevancies IS endless. And the reason each and every one of those items you've listed is irrelevant is because there is NO Constitutional issue involved in producing medical records, marriage records, drinking, trips anywhere in the world, etc.

In not ONE of the instances you have cited was there a question of the candidate's Constitutional eligibility to serve as President.

In the case of Barack Hussein Obama, there is. And it should be answered not with doctored-up, photo shopped, altered facsimiles of an alleged original document, but with the original, unaltered, birth certificate.
68 posted on 07/13/2008 2:03:59 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jimmy Carter is the Skidmark in the panties of American history.)
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To: MindBender26

GOP hasn’t shown to be for anyone or anything but themselves.

It is not the home of small government conservatism.


69 posted on 07/13/2008 2:20:23 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (I'm a RINO cuz I'm too conservative to be a Republican. McCain is the Conservatives true litmus test)
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To: MindBender26

Sucked in...a fake Birth Certificate did it. When in fact, there is probably a real one...that’s why NO one is the least bit worried about it. And one day the real one will be offered for all to see. Checkmate...


70 posted on 07/13/2008 2:24:43 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: KamperKen
"So, I'm throwing out a possibility for consideration; that Stanley Ann Dunham was not his biological mother. Obama was actually born in Kenya to one of the African wives of his father."

I think that the senator bears more than a passing resemblance to his mother. Actually she looks as though she could be pregnant in this picture.

71 posted on 07/13/2008 2:42:17 PM PDT by Mila
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To: Mila
"I think that the senator bears more than a passing resemblance to his mother. Actually she looks as though she could be pregnant in this picture."

I would agree that there's a resemblance. Thanks for the picture!
72 posted on 07/13/2008 2:48:54 PM PDT by KamperKen
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To: MindBender26

You are kidding, are you not? You are willing to participate in something that benefits the Clintons?


And yet if I told you the best thing that could happen to the Clintons is that McCain take Obama out for them in November (and then she beats McCain in 2012) you’d still probably go out and vote for McCain anyway.


73 posted on 07/13/2008 3:08:46 PM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: mkjessup
And the problem is, if we all make a nice bid stink about it NOW, Obama will drop out, Hillary will be the nominee, and instead of getting an easy to beat 15 minute media darling, we got a very formidable candidate in Hillary!

In sex and politics, timing is everything.

It's like the Bush DWI; drop it at the right time and we move the election 10-16 points.

Push it now, we get Super Operation Chaos,,, that goes way too far, and Hillary gets the nomination!

74 posted on 07/13/2008 3:14:18 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: mkjessup
Modern birth registration systems hardly rely on a file of "originals". They use a secure data base to generate certifications that a birth had been registered.

The recurring demand for an "original" falls on deaf ears because almost no state can provide such a document anymore.

I may well try to get Hawaii to provide me a certification of the current records on the basis that Obama is one of my first cousins (albeit at 7 removes, but a first cousin nonetheless).

75 posted on 07/13/2008 3:14:24 PM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
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To: MindBender26
It looks like Hawaiian officials are stone walling the release of Obama's birth certificate.

Here’s another blogger giving a thumbs down with pics to obama’s birth certificate. The guy says he is a board certified forensic computer investigator. He says his background includes a lot of investigations into forgeries. His work on obama's birth certificate shows a lot detail.

Here is a google search of the obama birth certificate

In her remarks on MSNBC Michelle Obama says of Barak. "His own mother, she said at the beginning of her remarks, was "very young and very single when she had him." "

Its reasonable to conclude that the Obama campaign would be hesitant to release his birth certificate because it would show that he was born illegitimate. Since there is a significant percent of the US population that is illegitimate -- you would think that barak would be comfortable releasing his birth certificate. but maybe not.

Jesse Jackson's remarks about wanting to cut off baraks nuts came because of baraks speech that exhorted fathers to take part in their children's lives--especially black fathers.

That speech may have come because of speculation on the internet about baraks birth certificate--which would show that his mom was single when she gave birth.

As well Michelle's remarks that barak's mother was "very single" when barak was born likely means that barak obama was born "barry dunham". Likely too his father's name wasn't on the birth certificate.

Of course then you have to say "so what". Lots of people today are born illegitamate in the USA. Bill Clinton's dad wasn't around very much. But then you'd have to ask --why then would the obama team go to such trouble to fudge the issue.

You might say that Barak is either skating on thin ice or that he's thin skinned. Either way he is definitely granular about the projection of an image. Here is an LA Times article about Obama's having removed two moslem women from sharing the stage with him.

I checked over at littlegreenfootballs and found that they're not buying the forgery angle. Remember he is the gold standard for now on forgeries. (However, he is saying that obama's website houses some wierd opinions.)

So why wouldn't Hawaii release the original?

Here is how the McCain campaign handled questions about his birth certificate. Its pretty perfunctory. They issued a hard copy of his birth certificate.
76 posted on 07/13/2008 3:29:41 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: ckilmer
LGF takes too much credit for things on which others did more or a significant part. Sorry. He does some good work, but honest humility fails many of the bigger blogs.

You know the more history of the internet unfolds, the more I see that a man like our founder Jim Robinson -- who rarely interjects himself into a discussion, compares to many the blogs who lack that humble character of leadership.

It would have been easy for the Robinsons' to change the name to "JimRob's Republic". He is a Cincinnatus. He's a bit of George Washington, himself, for that humility.

Never forget, Freepers, that we came before those blogs, and among us, some clearly great people RIP, who in their life while on FR were no more or less a fellow among all Freepers.

We all, and each, a part of history -- of America and Liberty. And G-d willing, may good Freepers continue to work earnestly and ably, openly and honestly with malice towards none, in brotherhood and friendship, for America, the bulwark and shining cup of Liberty to the world.

77 posted on 07/13/2008 3:58:52 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

“You know the more history of the internet unfolds, the more I see that a man like our founder Jim Robinson — who rarely interjects himself into a discussion, compares to many the blogs who lack that humble character of leadership.

It would have been easy for the Robinsons’ to change the name to “JimRob’s Republic”. He is a Cincinnatus. He’s a bit of George Washington, himself, for that humility.”

Hear, hear! But those are the values he loves, aren’t they? What could be more fitting as he does more than his bit for this generation of the great national experiment.


78 posted on 07/13/2008 4:03:14 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: hdstmf
"...riots of joy that a black man will give them “freedom” from white rule."

There will be no riots of joy. Your property and the liberty and opportunity of your children will be transferred lawfully.

79 posted on 07/13/2008 4:16:53 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: bvw

its best to give credit where its due. littlegreenfootballs just broke the photoshop job that the iranians did. littlegreenfootballs was also instrumental in spreading the dan rather story.

you’re right that littlegreenfootball offers a platform for lesser known blogs. but this is an important service. freerepublic does something similiar.

sorry for the use of the word “gold standard”.

I never post at littlegreenfootballs myself.


80 posted on 07/13/2008 4:40:53 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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