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Does Patriotism Matter?
RCP ^ | 7/1/08 | Thomas Sowell

Posted on 07/01/2008 3:37:30 AM PDT by nikos1121

The Fourth of July is a patriotic holiday but patriotism has long been viewed with suspicion or disdain by many of the intelligentsia. As far back as 1793, prominent British writer William Godwin called patriotism "high-sounding nonsense."

Internationalism has long been a competitor with patriotism, especially among the intelligentsia. H.G. Wells advocated replacing the idea of duty to one's country with "the idea of cosmopolitan duty."

Perhaps nowhere was patriotism so downplayed or deplored than among intellectuals in the Western democracies in the two decades after the horrors of the First World War, fought under various nations' banners of patriotism.

In Britain, Winston Churchill warned that a country "cannot avoid war by dilating upon its horrors." In France, Marshal Philippe Petain, the victor at Verdun, warned in 1934 that teachers were trying to "raise our sons in ignorance of or in contempt of the fatherland."

But they were voices drowned out by the pacifist and internationalist rhetoric of the 1920s and 1930s.

Did it matter? Does patriotism matter?

Most Americans today are unaware of how much our schools have followed in the footsteps of the French schools of the 1920s and 1930s, or how much our intellectuals have become citizens of the world instead of American patriots.

Our media are busy verbally transforming American combat troops from heroes into victims, just as the French intelligentsia did-- with the added twist of calling this "supporting the troops."

Will that matter? Time will tell.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2008election; demagogues; democrats; dnc; obama; patriotism; pelosi; rats; reid; sowell; thomassowell
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I think we all know what Patriotism means to Obama. Our troops are victims. We should be patriotic internationally. ARe borders should be open.

Add Obama's belief that our allegiance to "the world" supercedes our allegiance to our country.

Obama is dangerous. If there is anyone on this site who sees McCain as no different, then heaven help us.

We need to unite behind the republican candidates, like never before. We need to uncover Obama's current ploy, to move to the middle, and say anything to get elected and to avoid open and honest debate with McCain.

1 posted on 07/01/2008 3:37:30 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121

Supporting the defeat of your own country during a war is certainly not patriotic, by any definition.


2 posted on 07/01/2008 3:46:18 AM PDT by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: Thrownatbirth

True. But he supports the troops. They died in VAIN. They were victims rather than patriots....


3 posted on 07/01/2008 3:47:23 AM PDT by nikos1121 (Obama, tells us truthfully, where you were born.)
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To: nikos1121
Most Americans today are unaware of how much our schools have followed in the footsteps of the French schools of the 1920s and 1930s, or how much our intellectuals have become citizens of the world instead of American patriots.

Sowell's 100% correct on this. I grew up in the 1950s and 60s, and I can remember what almost seemed like a concerted shift towards an anti-American point of view in my textbooks and even the classroom teachers towards the end of the 1950s. The American educational establishment has always been influenced by the "progressivists" and the left, particularly since the time of Thomas Dewey, but this has really come to full flower in recent decades. The result is that kids know fewer facts and less real history, but have been fully indoctrinated in hatred for their own country and culture by the time they graduate from high school.

And yes, I agree, we've got to do all we can to make sure that Obama, our own personal Robert Mugabe, doesn't get elected. (I'm even going to volunteer for the local GOP!) I doubt that the country as we know it would last out his term.

4 posted on 07/01/2008 3:49:00 AM PDT by livius
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To: nikos1121
Depends upon the convictions(or lack of) of the electorate...


5 posted on 07/01/2008 3:51:56 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: A_perfect_lady
The Fourth of July is a patriotic holiday but patriotism has long been viewed with suspicion or disdain by many of the intelligentsia. As far back as 1793, prominent British writer William Godwin called patriotism "high-sounding nonsense."

That's because we kicked their tail in the war for Independence.

Good Morning!

6 posted on 07/01/2008 3:52:50 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Thrownatbirth
You are being a typical, bitter conservative thinking in terms of black and white. The Dems are patriotic traitors. It's a very nuanced definition. A Dem thing. You just don't understand.
7 posted on 07/01/2008 3:55:57 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: jazusamo

Sowell ping.


8 posted on 07/01/2008 3:58:48 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: nikos1121
He says he loves his country, because that was how he was raised.

He neglects to mention that both his parents chose to live away from the US, on the other side of the world.

His mother refused to think of Americans as "her people."

Not an auspicious beginning for a presidential candidate.

9 posted on 07/01/2008 4:13:26 AM PDT by syriacus (Democrats got THEIR "change" in Election 2006. Are WE better off now?)
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To: nikos1121
Does patriotism matter?

Yes. If there were no patriots there would be no America. Any and every politician wishing to be the Commander and Chief should have their patriotism scrutinized. It seems to me the Obamanation has many skeletons in his closet if he believes his patriotism, evidenced by his acts/beliefs, be explored and discussed. What a tool and the MSM on the evening news (CBS, NBC & ABC) played like one long campaign commercial for him yesterday...making every excuse for him, and just about condemning all that question the Obamanation's patriotism. I believe McCain would welcome a debate on patriotism and what it means...while the hypocrite tool Obama tries to hide from same. I guess that in itself shows you what this guy is all about.

10 posted on 07/01/2008 4:16:01 AM PDT by never4get (We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid)
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To: syriacus

His mother, as far as we know, hated her own race and was deeply anti American. His father and step father were Muslims.

I mean what more do we need to know about this clown, other than proof that he probably wasn’t even born in this country.


11 posted on 07/01/2008 4:16:36 AM PDT by nikos1121 (Obama, tells us truthfully, where you were born.)
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To: never4get

Unless the MSM starts to question this guy, he’s going to get a free pass. I think even O ‘ Reilly is going to be wrapped up in him..


12 posted on 07/01/2008 4:21:29 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be a Jackie Robinson, not a Jackie come lately.)
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To: nikos1121
Does patriotism matter?

Our church choir did a special patriotic music program over the weekend with a salute to the armed forces. This was a very moving service with outburst of applause in appreciation for both the music and those honored. I came back to see extensive coverage on the Internet of international "gay pride parades" and could not help but notice the marked contrast...the caring for others vs. the all about me, the old vs. the young, the sacrifice vs. the complaining,the conservative vs. the outrageous, etc. What will a Fourth of July in the future look like?
13 posted on 07/01/2008 4:28:18 AM PDT by Notasoccermom (.)
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To: johnny7

Looking at those pictures and thinking ...

What would Obama do?


14 posted on 07/01/2008 4:35:57 AM PDT by EBH ( ... the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness. --Alculin c.735-804)
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To: nikos1121

I watched the John Adams mini series a couple of months ago. Excellent series. It really gave me a new appreciation for our Founders and the sacrifices they had to make. I’m a conservative, but I don’t really know a lot about our American history so it was so nice to watch this series and get an idea of what things were like. I don’t know if I just wasn’t paying attention in school or if it just wasn’t taught, but somehow I made it through school back in the 70’s and 80’s without any (or very little) knowledge about our Constitution and the Founders (among many other things I’m sure). I think the mini-series should definitely be shown in the schools. Anyway, I’ll be looking at this Fourth of July with new eyes. I know Tom Hanks is a lib, but I’m so thankful that he helped produce such a project. I hope they do more.


15 posted on 07/01/2008 4:45:42 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: EBH
What would Obama do?

“Kum-buy-yah', my Lord... kum-buy-yah'...”


16 posted on 07/01/2008 4:48:29 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: johnny7

The Leftmedia has a consistent policy of keeping pictures of 9/11 out of print and off the screen. They want us to forget. If the unwashed masses refuse to forget entirely, they have other weapons in their propaganda arsenal: the 9/11 “truther” movement, and the “Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11” tactic. It is not necessary for everyone to believe each idiotic lie; a few thousand fools here and there, and close states will swing their way in elections. After all, they’ve already gotten some useful idiots in the Libertarian camp to believe the truther paranoia. Liberaltarian votes could give us our first Marxist President.


17 posted on 07/01/2008 5:54:07 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: hellbender
The Leftmedia has a consistent policy of keeping pictures of 9/11 out of print and off the screen. They want us to forget.

There's truth... then there's the DBM.

18 posted on 07/01/2008 5:59:23 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: nikos1121

Except in its National Socialist or fascist flavor, socialism/communism has always fancied itself as an international movement. Patriotism and religion are seen by them as “primitive” notions used to drug the proletariat and divert them from “progressive” causes.


19 posted on 07/01/2008 5:59:56 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: beaversmom; nikos1121; AbeKrieger; Alia; Amalie; American Quilter; arthurus; awelliott; Bahbah; ...
Thank you for the ping, beaversmom.

*PING*
Thomas Sowell

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Recent columns
High-Stakes Courts
The Imitators: Part III
The Imitators: Part II

Please FReepmail me if you would like to be added to, or removed from, the Thomas Sowell ping list…

20 posted on 07/01/2008 7:26:19 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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