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Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids 3 minutes ago
AP via Yahoo ^ | 5/22/08

Posted on 05/22/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan

SAN ANGELO, Texas - A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.

The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.

Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained boys to become future perpetrators.

The appellate court ruled the chaotic hearing held last month did not demonstrate the children were in any immediate danger, the only measure of taking children from their homes without court proceedings.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: betterthancrispy; biggovernment; constitution; cpswatch; cultists; donutwatch; duplicate; fascism; feminism; firstamendment; flds; freedomofreligion; governmentnazis; jeffs; kidnapping; longdresses; mobrule; molesters; mormon; patriarchy; polygamy; property; ruling; statistapologists
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To: Old Mountain man
What many people here on FR fail to understand is that freedom is more important....

I get slammed a lot here when I stand up for the right of kids in school and opposing unlimited power to school officials. I believe kids should be trained to be citizens...not wards of a government functionary.

Its good to see so many on FR looking beyond immediate hard cases and emotional reactions and on to general principles of limited government and liberty instead.
701 posted on 05/22/2008 6:04:41 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: Gondring

You better not call it a tank if you know what’s good for you.


702 posted on 05/22/2008 6:05:44 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Utah Girl
Thank you. It may be a Pyhrric ruling though. Does the judge demand some corrective measures, or does the judge allow the government to get away with it?
703 posted on 05/22/2008 6:06:27 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (If you continue to hold your nose and vote, your nation will stink worse after every election.)
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To: Dog
They got to release those kids back to their parents.

Dang right.

Who is the State to say they can't marry off little 14 year old Susie as fifth wife to some drooling geezer?

That has to be a fundemental right!

Right?

704 posted on 05/22/2008 6:07:12 PM PDT by humblegunner (Che is Gay)
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To: commonguymd

Uh oh, you committed the unpardonable sin. You called it a tank. I caught such fury for calling it a tank. It is not a tank, even though it looks like a tank and acts like a tank. It is in actuality an armored personnel carrier and the FLDS little boys just loved it. Law enforcement guys let the boys inside to play and have fun . . . just before they rounded them up and whisked them away from their home and their mothers.


705 posted on 05/22/2008 6:08:43 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Gondring; atruelady; HeartlandOfAmerica
I can’t find anyone to tell me where Texas lied and is denying due process

First, start with CPS saying all parents refused to give names, kept changing names and/or DOB. Evidence was backed by those who produced birth certificates, driver's licenses, &/or marriage licenses.

Second... TX - MHMR (the state counseling/mental health/psychological agency assisting CPS at the original deportation center/coliseum) collaborated what the "hostage" mother's were saying... being lied to, degraded, deplorable conditions in the deportation center/coliseum, as well as the unprofessional conduct of the CPS agency toward the "accused & their children" and toward the MHMR staff.

AND... they don't know who the mother's are to whatever child/children.
Simple... they should have lined the mothers up in chairs in the center of that coliseum with the kids on the other side of all those closed doors. Told the mom's to play "freeze"... or else. Opened the doors... letting the kids into the coliseum "floor."
I guarantee... those kids would have run straight to their mother's... especially in that situation they were in.

706 posted on 05/22/2008 6:08:55 PM PDT by exhaustedmomma (McCain: You don't have to love him, you just have to fall in line)
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To: atruelady
Do you beleive that a pregnant teen girl would not be protected (on the outside) if it was found that the father was an older male? Of course not. We see plenty of cases where men go to jail for preying on little girls or young teens.

Sure, but they don't take the kid away from her, and they don't take away all the kids of parents who live in the same neighborhood or belong to the same church. They prosecute the abuser, and only the abuser, not his brothers sisters and cousins, They don't even prosecute his wife, unless she's shown to be complicit in the rape, which could be the case here, and if so, individual prosecution would be warranted.

Our Constitution, and our whole legal system, is about individual due process, not group guilt.

707 posted on 05/22/2008 6:09:21 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: DoughtyOne

They vacated the lower court’s ruling and told her to act according to their decision, which says that CPS failed to meet its burden on virtually every point. If the judge doesn’t comply, they’ll issue a writ of mandamus telling her exactly what to do.

I think that means she’ll have to send them back to their parents immediately, but I’m not entirely sure.


708 posted on 05/22/2008 6:09:44 PM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: Arkinsaw
It is amazing to see the power of the mob that reacts emotionally. They can effectively silence folks into submission by cruel accusations thus enable the eroding of rights. I call it the Free Republic Nancy Grace crew. They are vicious.
709 posted on 05/22/2008 6:12:12 PM PDT by commonguymd (Let the socialists duke it out. All three of them.)
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To: lady lawyer

Does this ruling only apply to those FLDS parents who petitioned the higher court to get their children back?
I thought the petition did not include all parents/children.


710 posted on 05/22/2008 6:12:43 PM PDT by antceecee (where do we go from here Ollie?.)
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To: DannyTN
In my opinion, if the post-pub girls are in danger, the other kids are too. Even if the perb’s attention has not been focused on the other kids in the past. That’s why I said this court was naive.

Perhaps, even likely. But not Imminent Danger, which is what the law requires if children are to be taken without an adversarial due process proceeding, as was done in this case.

711 posted on 05/22/2008 6:12:49 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
How about the State should have waited for the DNA results before dispersing the over 2 year old kids to foster and group homes across the state?

I agree with your sentiment, but if the FDLS members are interbred to the point it causes a medical condition, do you think DNA testing could prove conclusive parentage?

With everyone (literally) related to everyone else, they would share the same DNA, would they not?

712 posted on 05/22/2008 6:13:03 PM PDT by MamaTexan (* I am not a political, administrative or legal 'entity', nor am I a *person* as created by law *)
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To: humblegunner

proof?


713 posted on 05/22/2008 6:13:05 PM PDT by commonguymd (Let the socialists duke it out. All three of them.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

It’s an old M113 Armored Personnel Carrier.


714 posted on 05/22/2008 6:13:15 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: CindyDawg
DO NOT put my name on any of your "lists"

Do I detect a bit of defensiveness?

My own problem is very simple, I don't keep track of who says what, and in this particular instance, I should have.

The fascists here are dangerous, just as the Block Watchers in the old USSR were dangerous.

Here, they pose a threat to our freedoms, and our way of life. We need to be aware of who they are.

715 posted on 05/22/2008 6:13:17 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (OVERPRODUCTION......... one of the top five worries for American farmers.)
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To: Gondring

No, but once they went to the compound to investigate the call and found polygamy and teenage mothers ‘married’ to old men, then they had evidence of the law being broken there.

If the police have a warrant to go into an apartment to investigate a murder and find no evidence of it, but while they are there they see lots of drugs, they will certainly arrest the person for the drugs. That’s what happened here isn’t it? Once they went in there they saw evidence of polygamy and rape so they acted. That is just how I want the police to behave. They were breaking the law in that compound, and they need to accept the consequences of that. In my opinion. People don’t just get to ignore the law because of their religious beliefs. Otherwise you could have cults doing ANYTHING.


716 posted on 05/22/2008 6:13:58 PM PDT by CatherinePPP
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To: El Gato

Our Constitution, and our whole legal system, is about individual due process, not group guilt.

Yup.

And it’s also not about what you MIGHT do, but what you actually did.

I added the KIDNAPPING keyword to the whole thread, because if you or I did what CPS did, that’s what you would get charged with. And assault. And conspiracy. And probably a dozen others.


717 posted on 05/22/2008 6:14:08 PM PDT by djf
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To: Saundra Duffy

Gotta correct you I think. They let the boys inside to play and have fun AFTER they rounded them up and scared the beejeebers out of them. Then they whisked them away into satans den(s).


718 posted on 05/22/2008 6:14:48 PM PDT by commonguymd (Let the socialists duke it out. All three of them.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
I was thinking the same thing.....

;-)

719 posted on 05/22/2008 6:15:02 PM PDT by MamaTexan (* I am not a political, administrative or legal 'entity', nor am I a *person* as created by law *)
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To: commonguymd
And that got knocked out of the park. Huge mistake, CPS made.

No it just got knocked up to the next level. The Third Court of Appeals is the second most overturned appeals court in the state. The most overturned appeals court, the Thirteenth Court of Appeals in Corpus Christi, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the trial lawyers.

720 posted on 05/22/2008 6:16:07 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (1984 was supposed to be a warning not an instruction manual!)
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