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The Cradle That Is India
Rediff ^ | 3-7-2005

Posted on 01/17/2008 5:30:58 AM PST by blam

The cradle that is India

March 07, 2005

Ideas about early Indian history continue to play an important role in political ideology of contemporary India. On the one side are the Left and Dravidian parties, which believe that invading Aryans from the northwest pushed the Dravidians to south India and India's caste divisions are a consequence of that encounter. Even the development of Hinduism is seen through this anthropological lens. This view is essentially that of colonial historians which was developed over a hundred years ago.

On the other side are the nationalist parties, which believe that the Aryan languages are native to India. These groups cite the early astronomical dates in the Vedas, noting these texts are rooted firmly in the Indian geographical region. But Leftist scholars consider such evidence suspect, politically motivated, and chauvinistic.

In recent years, the work of archaeologists and historians of science concluded that there is no material evidence for any large scale migrations into India over the period of 4500 to 800 BC, implicitly supporting the traditional view of Indian history. The Left has responded by conceding that there were probably no invasions; rather, there were many small scale migrations by Aryans who, through a process of cultural dominance, imposed their language on north Indians.

The drama of text-book revisions, both during the NDA and the current UPA governments, is essentially a struggle to impose one or the other of these viewpoints. In any other country, such a fight would have fought in the pages of academic journals; but in India, where the government decides what history is, it is a political matter.

Now, in an important book titled The Real Eve: Modern Man's Journey out of Africa (New York: Carroll and Graf Publishers, 2003), the prominent Oxford University scholar Stephen Oppenheimer has synthesised the available genetic evidence together with climatology and archaeology with conclusions which have bearing on the debate about the early population of India. This work has received great attention in the West, and it will also interest Indians tremendously.

Much of Oppenheimer's theory is based on recent advances in studies of mitochondrial DNA, inherited through the mother, and Y chromosomes, inherited by males from the father. Oppenheimer makes the case that whereas Africa is the cradle of all mankind; India is the cradle of all non-African peoples. Man left Africa approximately 90,000 years ago, heading east along the Indian Ocean, and established settlements in India. It was only during a break in glacial activity 50,000 years ago, when deserts turned into grasslands, that people left India and headed northwest into the Russian steppes and on into Eastern Europe, as well as northeast through China and over the now submerged Bering Strait into the Americas.

In their migration to India, African people carried the mitochondrial DNA strain L3 and Y chromosome line M168 across south Red Sea across the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula. On the maternal side the mtDNA strain L3 split into two daughters which Oppenheimer labels Nasreen and Manju. While Manju was definitely born in India the birthplace of Nasreen is tentatively placed by him in southern Iran or Baluchistan. One Indian Manju subclan in India is as old as 73,000 years, whereas European man goes back to less than 50,000 years.

Considering the paternal side, Oppenheimer sees M168 as having three sons, of whom Seth was the most important one. Seth, in turn, had five sons which are named by him as Jahangir, H, I, G and Krishna. Krishna, born in India, is the ancestor of the peoples of East Asia, Central Asia, Oceania and West Eurasia (through the M17 mutation). This is what Oppenheimer says about M17:

"South Asia is logically the ultimate origin of M17 and his ancestors; and sure enough we find highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia but diversity characterizes its presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a 'male Aryan Invasion of India.'

Study of the geographical distribution and the diversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that Ruslan, along with his son M17, arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India, and subsequently spread not only south-east to Australia but also north, directly to Central Asia, before splitting east and west into Europe and East Asia.

Oppenheimer argues that the Eurocentric view of ancient history is also incorrect. For example, Europeans didn't invent art, because the Australian aborigines developed their own unique artistic culture in complete isolation. Indian rock art is also extremely ancient, going back to over 40,000 BC, so perhaps art as a part of culture had arisen in Africa itself. Similarly, agriculture didn't arise in the Fertile Crescent; Southeast Asia had already domesticated many plants by that time.

Oppenheimer concludes with two extraordinary conclusions: 'First, that the Europeans' genetic homeland was originally in South Asia in the Pakistan/Gulf region over 50,000 years ago; and second, that the Europeans' ancestors followed at least two widely separated routes to arrive, ultimately, in the same cold but rich garden. The earliest of these routes was the Fertile Crescent. The second early route from South Asia to Europe may have been up the Indus into Kashmir and on to Central Asia, where perhaps more than 40,000 years ago hunters first started bringing down game as large as mammoths.'

This synthesis of genetic evidence makes it possible to understand the divide between the north and the south Indian languages. It appears that the Dravidian languages are more ancient, and the Aryan languages evolved in India over thousands of years before migrations took them to central Asia and westward to Europe. The proto-Dravidian languages had also, through the ocean route, reached northeast Asia, explaining the connections between the Dravidian family and the Korean and the Japanese.

Perhaps this new understanding will encourage Indian politicians to get away from the polemics of who the original inhabitants of India are, since that should not matter one way or the other in the governance of the country. Indian politics has long been plagued by the Aryan invasion narrative, which was created by English scholars of the 19th century; it is fitting that another Englishman, Stephen Oppenheimer, should announce its demise.

TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aryaninvasion; aryans; cradle; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; india; indusvalley; indusvalleyscript; oppenheimer; pakistan
I've read where one Indian archaeologist (N Narain), believes that the Gansu Province of China is the homeland of all Europeans.
1 posted on 01/17/2008 5:31:00 AM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.

2 posted on 01/17/2008 5:32:27 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
On The Presence Of Non-Chinese At Anyang
3 posted on 01/17/2008 6:12:55 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
Brief Communication 1331
Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian
mitochondrial DNA lineages
T. Kivisild*, M.J. Bamshad
, K. Kaldma*, M. Metspalu*, E. Metspalu*,
M. Reidla*, S. Laos*, J. Parik*, W.S. Watkins
, M.E. Dixon
, S.S. Papiha
S.S. Mastana
, M.R. Mir
, V. Ferak
and R. Villems*
About a fifth of the human gene pool belongs largely
either to Indo-European or Dravidic speaking people
inhabiting the Indian peninsula. The ‘Caucasoid share’
in their gene pool is thought to be related
predominantly to the Indo-European speakers.
A commonly held hypothesis, albeit not the only one,
suggests a massive Indo-Aryan invasion to India some
4,000 years ago [1]. Recent limited analysis of
maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of
Indian populations has been interpreted as supporting
this concept [2,3]. Here, this interpretation is questioned.
We found an extensive deep late Pleistocene genetic
link between contemporary Europeans and Indians,
provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U, which
encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineages of both
populations. Our estimate for this split is close to the
suggested time for the peopling of Asia and the first
expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia
[4–8] and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe. Only a
small fraction of the ‘Caucasoid-specific’ mtDNA
lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to
a relatively recent admixture.
Addresses: *Department of Evolutionary Biology, Tartu University, Riia
23, Tartu 51010, Estonia.
Departments of Pediatrics and Human
Genetics, Eccles Institute of Human Genetics, University of Utah, Salt
Lake City, Utah 84112, USA.
Department of Human Genetics,
University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Newcastle, UK.
Department of
Human Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, UK.
Veterinary College of Srinagar, Kashmir 190003, India.
Faculty of
Natural Sciences, Comenius University, 842 15, Bratislava, Slovakia.
Correspondence: R. Villems
Received: 10 August 1999
Revised: 28 September 1999
Accepted: 29 September 1999
Published: 8 November 1999
Current Biology 1999, 9:1331–1334
0960-9822/99/$ – see front matter
© 1999 Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights reserved.
Results and discussion
The recent African origin of modern humans is now sup-
ported by palaeoanthropological, as well as sex-specific
and autosomal genetic, evidence (for recent reviews, see
[8,9]). The concordance between the interpretation of
data obtained by mtDNA, Y-chromosomal and most of the
autosomal markers is encouraging and suggests that, irre-
spective of the differences in the mode of inheritance,
these three genetic approaches produce consistent overall
findings in this central issue.
We sequenced the mitochondrial hypervariable region I
(HVR I) and performed extensive restriction fragment
length polymorphism (RFLP) analysis of 550 Indian
mtDNA samples. We inferred a parsimonious phylogenetic
tree from the data using the median network approach
[10], which is particularly suitable for intraspecies analysis
of mtDNA lineages and other highly variable data sets.
Figure 1 is an outline of this Indian mtDNA tree within
the background of the previously defined global mtDNA
lineage clusters (haplogroups) [11–13]. Consistent with the
recent out-of-Africa model of human origins [14], all of the
Indian mtDNA lineages we inferred can be seen as deriv-
ing from the African mtDNA lineage cluster L3a,
described in [15]. We found that more than 80% of the
Indian mtDNA lineages belong to either Asian-specific
haplogroup M (60.4%) or western-Eurasian-specific hap-
logroups H, I, J, K, U and W (20.5%), while the remaining
19.1% of lineages do not belong to any of the previously
established mtDNA haplogroups (Table 1). We note that
haplogroup K should now be considered a sub-cluster of
haplogroup U [13].
The first and the most profound layer of overlap between
the western-Eurasian and the Indian mtDNA lineages
relates to haplogroup U, a complex mtDNA lineage cluster
with an estimated age of 51,000–67,000 years [16]. Until
now, this haplogroup has not been reported to occur in
India nor east of India and was considered a western-
Eurasian-specific haplogroup. Surprisingly, we found that
haplogroup U is the second most frequent haplogroup in
India as it is in Europe (Table 1). Nevertheless, the spread
of haplogroup U subclusters in Europe and India differs
profoundly (Figure 2). The dominant subcluster in India is
U2. Although rare in Europe, the South-Asian form differs
from the western-Eurasian one: western-Eurasian U2
includes a further characteristic transversion at nucleotide
position (np) 16,129 [12], which is absent in Indian U2
varieties (Figure 2). We calculated the coalescence age
essentially as described in [15,17] and estimate the split
between the Indian and western-Eurasian U2 lineages as
53,000 ± 4,000 years before present (BP). We note that U5,
the most frequent and ancient subcluster of haplogroup U

Page 2
in Europe, has an almost identical coalescence age esti-
mate [13]. Still, despite their equally deep time depth, the
Indian U2 has not penetrated western Eurasia, and the
European U5 has almost not reached India (Table 2).
Subcluster U7 (among U* in [12,13]) is another variety of
haplogroup U present in India (Figure 2). Unlike the
Indian U2, it has been sampled, albeit rarely, in southern
Europe, the Near East [12,13] and (according to HVR I
sequence identification only) also in Central Asia [18]. We
calculated the coalescence age of this subcluster in India
as 32,000 ± 5,500 years: still deep in late Pleistocene but
considerably younger than that for U2. Table 2 compares
the frequency of varieties of haplogroup U in India, in the
Trans-Caucasus populations and in Europe.
Typical western-Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in India
belong to haplogroups H, I, J, T, X and to subclusters U1,
U4, U5 and K of haplogroup U (Figure 1; Tables 1,2). Fre-
quencies of these lineages in Indian populations are more
than an order of magnitude lower than in Europe: 5.2%
versus 70%, respectively (normalised from Table 1). This
finding might be explained by gene flow, as suggested pre-
viously [2]. Nevertheless, we note that the frequency of
these mtDNA haplogroups reveals neither a strong
north–south, nor language-based gradient: they are found
both among Hindi speakers from Uttar Pradesh (6%) and
Dravidians of Andhra Pradesh (4%). Assuming that they are
largely of western-Eurasian origin, we may ask when their
spread in India started. To assign a tentative date for their
introduction, we calculated the averaged minimal distance
of the corresponding mtDNA hypervariable region
sequences in Indians from the branches shared with
western Eurasians. We obtained a value for the statistic ρ
(see Materials and methods) equal to 0.46, consistent with a
1332 Current Biology Vol 9 No 22
Figure 1
The skeleton network of Indian lineage clusters on the background of
continent-specific mtDNA haplogroups. Red, Indians; green, western
Eurasians; yellow, eastern Eurasians; blue, Africans. Haplogroup
frequencies are proportional to node sizes. All Indian, eastern-Eurasian
and western-Eurasian mtDNA lineages coalesce finally to the African
node L3a. The former are shown magnified to account for higher
mtDNA diversity in sub-Saharan Africans. The most likely root of the
tree [15] is indicated within a pan-African cluster L1. The dashed line
leading from the African external node L3a to the Eurasian mtDNA
varieties identifies the position of L3a in the magnified part of the tree.
Current Biology
Table 1
MtDNA haplogroup frequencies (%) among some Indian and
Eurasian populations.
Population or group of populations
Western and eastern Eurasia
Haplogroup 1
Western 29.3
The numbers in italics represent the following populations: 1, North
India (Uttar Pradesh, n = 103, this study); 2, South India (Andhra
Pradesh Telugus, n = 250, this study); 3, India total (n = 550, this
study); 4, The Caucasus — Armenians (n = 192, this study), Georgians
(n = 138, this study); 5, Europe — Slovaks (n = 129, this study),
Russians (n = 100, this study), Czechs (n = 95, this study), Estonians
(n = 100, this study), Italians (n = 99 [27]), Finns (n = 49 [16]); 6,
Central Asia — Kirghiz (n = 95, deduced from [18]), Kazakhs (n = 55,
deduced from [18]), Uighurs (n = 55, deduced from [18]); 7, Tibet
(n = 54 [26]). *L1 and L2 defined by +3592 HpaI.
Lineages that do
not belong to any of the previously established haplogroups.

Page 3
divergence time of 9,300 ± 3,000 years BP. This is an
average over an unknown number of various founders and,
therefore, does not tell us whether there were one or many
migration waves, or whether there was a continuous long-
lasting gradual admixture. Their low frequency but still
general spread all over India plus the estimated time scale,
does not support a recent massive Indo-Aryan invasion, at
least as far as maternally inherited genetic lineages are con-
cerned. We note, however, that within an error margin this
time estimate is consistent with the arrival to India of
cereals domesticated in the Fertile Crescent [4,19]. Fur-
thermore, the spread of these western-Eurasian-specific
mtDNA clusters also among Dravidic-speaking populations
of India lends credence to the suggested linguistic connec-
tion between Elamite and Dravidic populations [20].
Thus, we have shown that the overwhelming majority of
the so-called western-Eurasian-specific mtDNA lineages in
Indian populations, estimated here to be carried by more
than a hundred million contemporary Indians, belong in
fact to an Indian-specific variety of haplogroup U of a late
Pleistocene origin. The latter exhibits a direct common
phylogenetic origin with its sister groups found in western
Eurasia (Figure 1), but it should not be interpreted in terms
of a recent admixture of western Caucasoids with Indians
caused by a putative Indo-Aryan invasion 3,000–4,000 years
BP. From the deep time depth of the split between the
predominant Indian and European haplogroup U varieties,
it could be speculated that haplogroup U arose in neither of
the two regions. This split could have already happened in
Africa, for example, in Ethiopia, where haplogroup U was
recently described [21].
Although there is no strong evidence yet for the presence
of anatomically modern humans in India before
35,000–40,000 years ago [22], the earliest estimates of the
presence of modern humans in Australia [23] make it very
likely that the subcontinent served as a pathway for east-
ward migration of modern humans somewhat earlier and
that it could have been inhabited by them en route, as sug-
gested by the ‘Southern Route’ hypothesis [24,25]. Our
coalescence age estimate for the mtDNA sub-cluster U2
overlaps not only with the corresponding value for the
European U5, but with the suggested coalescence age of
the Indian-specific subset of the predominantly Asian
haplogroup M lineages as well (M.J.B., T.K., W.S.W.,
M.E.D., B.B. Rao, J.M. Naidu, et al., unpublished observa-
tions). Taken together, these data suggest that a common
denominator — most likely beneficial climate condi-
tions — led to the expansion of populations all over
Eurasia, including the ancestors of those who now encom-
pass most of the mtDNA genome pool of the extant
Brief Communication 1333
Figure 2
Reconstruction of haplogroup U lineages found in India. Green bold
lines, the background of previously characterized haplogroup U
lineages from western Eurasia; red lines, lineages and haplotypes
found only in India; pink nodes, Dravidic speakers; blue nodes, Hindi
speakers. The HVR I mutations at given nucleotide positions compared
with the Cambridge Reference Sequence [28] are shown less the
16,000 prefix near the lines connecting the nodes. Only transversions
are specified (for example, 318AT defines an A to T transversion at np
16,318). The ancestral node of haplogroup U, marked with an asterisk,
differs from the reference sequence by transitions at nps 00073
(+Alw44I) , 7028 (+AluI), 12308 (+HinfI), 11467 (–TruI).
Current Biology
Table 2
Frequencies (%) of subclusters of haplogroup U in India and in
some western-Eurasian populations.
Population or group of populations
Russians, Slovaks
Other U
Population sizes and their absolute U frequency as in Table 1.
Subclusters of haplogroup U are defined as in [12,13]. U2i and U2e
indicate Indian and western-Eurasian varieties of subcluster U2,
respectively (see Figure 2). NF, not found.

Page 4
Indians. Furthermore, this specific distribution of mtDNA
varieties in India compared with the distribution observed
among Mongoloids and the Caucasoid populations of
western Eurasia (Figure 1) is, at present, best explained by
two separate late Pleistocene migrations of modern humans
to India. One of them, possibly arriving by the southern
route, brought to India an ancestral population carrying hap-
logroup M and was spread further eastward. The second
migration brought the ancestors of haplogroup U. Although
the admixture of these major waves started perhaps very
early — explaining the spread of these major mtDNA vari-
eties all over the subcontinent — it is likely that it hap-
pened after the carriers of haplogroup M found their way
further east, explaining the absence of haplogroup U lin-
eages among Mongoloid populations studied so far.
Materials and methods
Samples from 86 Lambadi, 62 Lobana (Lamani speakers; Indo-Aryan
languages), 12 Tharu and 18 Buksa (Indo-Aryan languages), 122 pre-
dominantly Indo-Aryan language speakers from Uttar Pradesh
(GenBank accession numbers AJ234902–AJ235201) and a set of
250 Telugu samples (Dravidic speakers) were sequenced for hyper-
variable region I of mtDNA and typed for the presence of major conti-
nent-specific markers, described in [11,16,26]. The HVR I polymorphic
sites of all 550 Indian mtDNAs sequenced by us are provided in the
Supplementary material. The phylogenetic analysis also included 101
published HVR I sequences from south-western India [6].
Phylogenetic analysis was performed by reduced median networks
[10], applied here using parsimony analysis of the data. The median
network analysis allows one to reveal simultaneously multiple parallel,
equally probable, phylogenetic pathways in the form of reticulations
induced by highly variable markers. The distinct mtDNA lineage clus-
ters are referred to here as haplogroups. The time to the most recent
common ancestor of a cluster of lineages (haplogroup) or, where
appropriate, a sub-cluster inside a particular haplogroup, was calcu-
lated as described [17], using an estimator ρ, which is the average
transitional distance from the founder haplotype sequence.
Supplementary material
Supplementary material including a table listing the mtDNA HVR I
sequence polymorphisms in different Indian populations and a more
detailed description of the materials and methods is available at
We thank Lynn B. Jorde and Paul M.A. Broda for valuable comments, and
Jaan Lind and Ille Hilpus for technical assistance. This work was supported
by Citrina Foundation UK and by Estonian Science Fund grants 1669 and
2887 to R.V., NSF grants SBR-9514733 and SBR-9512178, and NIH
grant PHS MO1-00064.
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1334 Current Biology Vol 9 No 22

Page 5
Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian
mitochondrial DNA lineages
T. Kivisild, M.J. Bamshad, K. Kaldma, M. Metspalu, E. Metspalu, M. Reidla,
S. Laos, J. Parik, W.S. Watkins, M.E. Dixon, S.S. Papiha, S.S. Mastana,
M.R. Mir, V. Ferak and R. Villems
Current Biology 8 November 1999, 9:1331–1334
Supplementary materials and methods
Samples from 86 Lambadi, 62 Lobana (Lamani speakers; Indo-Aryan
languages), 12 Tharu and 18 Buksa (Indo-Aryan languages) were col-
lected as part of the ongoing genetic studies of the populations of the
Indian subcontinent at the Division of Human Genetics of the University
of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. In addition, 122 samples with mixed-caste
status, predominantly Indo-Aryan language speakers from Uttar
Pradesh and Kashmir, were included in the analyses (GenBank acces-
sion numbers AJ234902–AJ235201). The Uttar Pradesh sequences
are from our independent Gypsy study (K.K., F. Calafell, T.K., M.J.B.,
J.P., E.M. et al., unpublished observations). The set of 250 Telugu
samples that was used to represent Dravidic speakers will be pub-
lished elsewhere. Altogether, 550 samples from the Indian peninsula
were sequenced for hypervariable region I of mtDNA and typed for the
presence of major continent-specific markers, described in [S1–S3].
Phylogenetic analysis was performed by reduced median networks
[S4], applied here using parsimony analysis of the data. In general, par-
simony methods for inferring phylogenies operate by selecting trees
that minimize the total tree length [S5]. In particular, the median net-
works approach allows one to reveal simultaneously multiple parallel,
equally probable, phylogenetic pathways in the form of reticulations
induced by highly variable markers. These reticulations reflect either
parallel mutations or, more often, ambiguities in the branching pattern
of a phylogenetic tree. Compared with any ‘single tree’ method, the
network approach does not increase the phylogenetic resolution artifi-
cially. Nevertheless, considerable reduction of the network towards a
tree can be achieved by giving higher weight to conservative markers
versus hypervariable ones. Here, the reduced median networks were
constructed using RFLP-typed conservative markers from the mtDNA
coding region, with haplogroups specified according to the nomencla-
ture proposed in [S1–S3,S6] and were further refined using sequence
data from HVR I of the D-loop of the mtDNA genome. Every cluster of
mtDNA lineages thus inferred should, in theory, constitute a mono-
phyletic clade in the human mtDNA pool. These distinct clusters are
referred to here as mtDNA haplogroups. The time to the most recent
common ancestor of a cluster of lineages (haplogroup) or, where
appropriate, of a sub-cluster inside of a particular haplogroup, was cal-
culated as described [S7], using an estimator ρ, which is the average
transitional distance from a founder haplotype sequence. We consid-
ered only transitions between nucleotide positions 16,090–16,365 in
the HVR I of mtDNA and one substitution per 20,180 years was taken
as an average distance from a specified founder [S8]. The phyloge-
netic analyses also included 101 published D-loop sequences from
southwestern India [S9]. Western Eurasian samples that were used as
a comparator included our unpublished sequences and RFLP data on
the Caucasus area (n = 330), Slavic populations (n = 324) and approx-
imately 2000 sequences retrieved from data banks [S10,S11] and
recent publications [S12,S13].
Supplementary references



See original .pdf format file:


4 posted on 01/17/2008 6:17:10 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: blam

This is my yDNA migration map. Notice that my ancestors got to Europe via Russia while others (not shown) made their way through the Middle East. My ancestors spent the Last Glacial Maximum(LGM), 18-23,000 years ago in the Franco-Iberian refuge.

5 posted on 01/17/2008 6:19:46 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Oops, looks like the html conversion messed up. Check the original pdf file, for the original formatting.

6 posted on 01/17/2008 6:20:25 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Thanks. I don’t do pdf.

7 posted on 01/17/2008 6:26:30 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Will the test be multiple choice?

8 posted on 01/17/2008 6:27:28 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

Thanks Blam.
In recent years, the work of archaeologists and historians of science concluded that there is no material evidence for any large scale migrations into India over the period of 4500 to 800 BC, implicitly supporting the traditional view of Indian history.
Y'know, other than the Indian epics about the invasion, along with the more or less simultaneous abandonment of the Indus Valley cities, loss of its writing system (which though unread, has been shown to record an agglutinative language), and "dark age". What do such archaeologists and historians demand, a trail of discarded weapons leading into the region?

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·

9 posted on 01/17/2008 9:58:33 AM PST by SunkenCiv ( updated Wednesday, January 16, 2008)
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To: blam
Blam how does this new work fit in with his earlier theory of the submerged continent of S.E. Asia being mankind’s refuge?
10 posted on 01/17/2008 10:27:07 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
"Blam how does this new work fit in with his earlier theory of the submerged continent of S.E. Asia being mankind’s refuge?"

I don't think this work changes it...but, the idea/theory doesn't sound as solid as it once did. The Sundalanders may have trekked up the Indus valley...early.

11 posted on 01/17/2008 1:36:23 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

My theory is that eventually, they’re going to discover a second “cradle of humanity” in east Asia. I once knew a girl who had a Black father and a Japanese mother. She looked precisely like an Indian....

12 posted on 01/17/2008 1:39:08 PM PST by Antoninus ("Make all the promises you have to." --Mitt Romney)
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To: blam
but, the idea/theory doesn't sound as solid as it once did. The Sundalanders may have trekked up the Indus valley...early

That was my thought too when I read this article. It's amazing how DNA research is revolutionizing this field.

13 posted on 01/17/2008 1:42:47 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
"It's amazing how DNA research is revolutionizing this field."

Yup. In less that 20 years, we'll know everything about everyone and where they came from and when. Not to mention all their diseases, etc too.

14 posted on 01/17/2008 2:02:56 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for the ping.

15 posted on 01/17/2008 2:34:09 PM PST by indcons
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To: indcons

:’) My pleasure.

16 posted on 01/17/2008 9:49:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv ( updated Wednesday, January 16, 2008)
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