Iran Encounter Grimly Echoes ’02 War Game

nytimes ^ | January 12, 2008 | By THOM SHANKER

[Flavius]

WASHINGTON — There is a reason American military officers express grim concern over the tactics used by Iranian sailors last weekend: a classified, $250 million war game in which small, agile speedboats swarmed a naval convoy to inflict devastating damage on more powerful warships.

[Eye of Unk]

Personally I think we should bring back a modern day version of the PT boat, mount a 35mm and a chain gun plus some rotary launchers with a mix of air to air and assorted missiles, and of course a 50cal or two. I know the Navy has more high tech vessels but its quantity we need not gold plated holes in the water, heck they could even be remote controlled.

[Eye of Unk]

I kinda wonder how many of these type of boats the DEA has confiscated and if they could be pressed into service with some deck guns and TOW missiles.

[G8 Diplomat]

in which small, agile speedboats swarmed a naval convoy to inflict devastating damage on more powerful warships.

[fso301]

I remember reading somewhere that the USN has some level of ability to defend itself against small, thin skinned vessels at close and intermediate ranges.

Description: A pirate skiff burns after being hit by several rounds from a 25mm gun aboard guided-missile destroyer USS Porter (DDG 78).

Description: Gunner's Mate Seaman Gabino Martinez fires a MK-38 25mm machine gun system during a training exercise aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Boxer (LHD 4).

Description: Gunners Mate 3rd Class Thomas Madden stationed aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) shoots an M-60 machine gun,

Description: Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Benjamin Clark, watches as Photographer's Mate 2nd Class Herbert Banks, fires a M-60 machine gun aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Saipan (LHA 2).

Description: A burst of flames leaps from the barrel of a .50-caliber machine gun during a security team weapons qualification on the fantail of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75).

Description: Fire Controlman Steven Baumgartner from Oelwein, Iowa, assigned to Combat Systems Department aboard the guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), fires the twin .50 caliber machine gun

Description: Phalanx MK-15 Close In Weapons Systems (CIWS) fires a high-speed computer controlled, radar guided, 20 mm Gatling gun

Description: Smoke billows from the five-inch deck gun aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Lassen during a calibration test fire.

Description: Aviation Ordnanceman 2nd Class Phillip Vaughan fires a GAU-17/A 0.30 caliber (7.62mm) Minigun.

Description: CH-53D "Sea Stallion" heavy assault transport helicopter crewmen, Sergeant Todd Abbott and Sergeant Andrew McInally man their .50-caliber machine guns

Description: An AH-1 Cobra with the amphibious transport dock ship USS Austin (LPD 4) trailing the amphibious assault ship USS Nassau (LHA 4).

[Red6]

I really have to know!

Are you:

• The Ron Paul voter.

• A DU plant dropping liberal innuendoes on a conservative blog.

Seeing how you attempt to string together money and illegitimacy (The talking points of the Ron Paul camp) I assume that’s where you stand.

[Rummenigge]

So US officials also failed in the bhutto case for not ensuring the requested help by security contractors ???

It must be one phone call to Islamabad to make such things happen !

How embarrasing is that ? Black Water is not only involved in mercyless killing of innocent people but now they could have safed bhuttos live and where not allowed to because islamabad acted up on the US ?!

You must be seriously annoyed by the weak performance of your security organisations especially after they performed so embarrasingly sloppy before the 9/11 attacks.

[Red6]

I can’t make sense of your gibberish.

Explain yourself.

[Rummenigge]

here’s help:

http://www.starfall.com/n/level-a/learn-to-read/play.htm?f

[Red6]

You didn’t explain yourself.

But I’ll respond guessing as to what you attempted to convey in your post.

Organizations like DynCorp’s, Triple Canopy, Aires, and Blackwater are excellent. Karzai’s life has been spared many times because of the professionals that surround him. It is the liberal, people like you actually who are quick to condemn an organization like Blackwater (But have no clue about) and then a few months later blame Bhutto’s death on the lack of an organization you wanted banned just a few months earlier.

Here’s the bottom line. Pakistan is not under US control and the US presence there (There is some in reality) is very low key and largely clandestine/covert. It has been that way for years. Surrounding Bhutto with a bunch of Gringo’s that look like poster child storm-troopers for the most part, carrying big guns, might not go over well; not even with those who supported her. However, it is ironic that those who screamed the loudest about the evil Blackwater months past, today blame her death on the lack of this security from this organization.

[Red6]

“mercyless killing of innocent people “

Besides pandering to emotion using emotionally laden words, this has not been proven and is typical of your sort. There doesn’t need to be proof or anything else, you already know the answer because you “feel” a certain way. Besides, this sort of nonsense fails any test of reason. There was a German who was a cannibal, are all Germans cannibals? I heard some Germans today are Nazi’s, are you a Nazi (Thought you’d enjoy that one)? I heard the GSG9 executed a terrorist at a train station, are they merciless killers?

There are many of these sorts of firms in the world. Of the top five, three are US based.

http://www.blackwaterusa.com
http://www.dyn-intl.com
http://www.triplecanopy.com/triplecanopy/en/home

What do these firms have? They are established firms with years of experience, networks and interface links to foreign states as well as other US governmental agencies. They have developed procedures, training, as well as the infrastructure to handle large and high risk jobs. They operate on a scale and at a level unimaginable to most; even developing their own weapons or protective systems where buying off the shelf is insufficient or unsatisfactory, operating their own little fleet of helicopters etc. They recruit top notch people and they pay small fortunes because it’s difficult to get good people with lots of experience to do dangerous jobs. In all of your Germany you have nothing comparable.

[husky ed]

To bad the Navy doesn't have a couple of these lying around. <\sarcasm off
It would put a stain in Iran's shorts.
And everyone else's to boot.

ED

[Rummenigge]

Hmm You must be a democrate.

In your last postings you brought up that

1) the dollar is better as a currency then gold because it’s ammount can be increased randomly.

2) Bhutto could have been saved if the demanded Blackwater professionals had been on site - but they where not because of diplomatic difficulties.

then you made everyone reading your last posting remember the blackwater scandal again - fingerpointing to the fact that the main security contractor of the pentagon had shot 14 innocent civilians in a massacre (official statement of the FBI investigators) ???

Now my question - are you campaiging for the democratic party by bringing up all the current government weak spots in the shortest possible time - using a rednecks attitude as a cover role ?

[Red6]

Actually it was the NYT’s that reported this “heresy” without an identified source. There are a lot of people saying a lot of things and since Blackwater is one of the largest and the world’s premier security firm of its kind operating heavily in Iraq, it is of course the target of liberals and anti-war activists.

It is normally the role of the host country to provide a large part of the security. For example, the US ambassador in Germany is protected by German personnel. In places like Iraq and Afghanistan this does not work for obvious reasons. Firms like Blackwater fill the void, and it must also be understood that because of the nature of the threat, these guys operate with a whole different set of rules as compared to our security guys in the US or yours in Germany. Them boys don’t play around, they can’t.

For example:

Paul Bremmer- http://www.btlonline.org/blackwater102607.jpg
US embassy Baghdad- http://www.change-links.org/blackwater.jpg

If these guys were German, we in the FreeRepublic would have to endure hour long lectures by the Germans of their great super duper elite security guys, not much unlike how you still dream about that success at Mogadishu by the GSG9. But since you’re a typical German; fitting the cliché description, against the Iraq intervention, you simply jump on this bandwagon and pick up on every argument that fits your fancy at that moment, no matter how stupid it is.

[Red6]

As to the rest of your typical acrobatics in reasoning, it’s not even worth my time delving into.

[Rummenigge]

... every argument that fits your fancy at that moment, no matter how stupid it is.

well I actually didn’t bring up anything - you brought up the blackwater missery the dollar crash and the immage catastrophe your president caused.

And in the past you mentioned the high states quote germany pushed and how everything was states owned in the 70ies - bringing up in wich direction europe is going (to a more market oriented society) and the way your country is going:

E.g. Bushs ‘republican’ program:

Higher taxes to pay the housing debts of those who did’nt work but buy.

Isn’t it funny you always mention the bad things about your country and the good one about europe ?

I guess your clown immage isn’t quite as credible as it was - your democrate attitude is showing.

Go back to DU !

[KantianBurke]

“The sheer numbers involved overloaded their ability, both mentally and electronically, to handle the attack,” said Lt. Gen. Paul K. Van Riper, a retired Marine Corps officer who served in the war game as commander of a Red Team force representing an unnamed Persian Gulf military. “The whole thing was over in 5, maybe 10 minutes.”

[Little Ray]

And the watch wasn’t allowed to hose the bastards down with a .50 cal when they came too close and refused to heed warnings.

That said, I have some doubts about the ability of a “swarm” of small boats could inflict. RPGs, automatic grenade launchers, and light autocannons are just not a huge threat to destroyers, cruisers and CVs.

When all is said and done, though, the USN might be advised to buy some “light” craft of their own with autocannons and light anti-ship missiles. There are plenty on the market...