Iran Encounter Grimly Echoes ’02 War Game

nytimes ^ | January 12, 2008 | By THOM SHANKER

[Flavius]

WASHINGTON — There is a reason American military officers express grim concern over the tactics used by Iranian sailors last weekend: a classified, $250 million war game in which small, agile speedboats swarmed a naval convoy to inflict devastating damage on more powerful warships.

[Enterprise]

Thanks - that sounds about right.

[Red6]

Factually incorrect.

Hizballah = Shi’ia, and they have employed suicide bombers on many occasions, including the bombing of the 1983 US Marine Corps barracks in Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

In fact- Suicide bombers were “predominantly” Shi’ia historically. But never mind the details.

[Red6]

You wrote- “Osama Bin Ladin who is basking in freedom in Pakistan where we prop up the DICTATOR that hides him. You really can’t make that up.”

—

Are you a DU plant?

What a bunch of garbage. Were at fault for Bhutto’s death because according to some in the media we pushed for democracy to hard; now we’re evil because we prop a dictator according to you. A few months ago the liberals screamed about the evil Blackwater “mercenaries” and want than banned, then after Bhuttos’s death they ask “Why wasn’t she protected by Blackwater?”

You right about one thing! You can’t make this up! - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/30/wbhutto230.xml

[El Gato]

Didn’t a fast boat do the devastation to the USS Cole during the Clinton administration?

No it was just what appeared to be a harbor supply boat, wanting to sell the Cole fresh produce or something like that.

[El Gato]

Cole was tied up at the dock

Not quite, she was tied up to the refueling dolphin, a sort of super buoy. From the testimony of then CinC CentCom, General Tommy Franks:

SS COLE met these requirements, and she continued her journey down the Red Sea entering the port of Aden on 12 October. She was moored to the starboard side of the refueling dolphin at 0849 (local Yemen

Also this article from All Hands, the magazine of the US Navy, which states that the dolphin was several hundred yards from the pier. time). At 1000, the Refueling Alignment was verified and, at 1031, Refueling Operations began. At 1118, the attack occurred.

[El Gato]

This is total BULL!! Yes maybe they could sucker punch a few ships but after that, everything they own of value would be decimated.

True, but AhmaNutJob DOES NOT CARE, in fact he may wish for that to happen. He just wants the 13th Imam to come up out of that well. That actually is said to require something that looks a lot like Armageddon.

[rahbert]

um, if they are suicide bombers, why would they think twice?

[El Gato]

At 1000, the Refueling Alignment was verified and, at 1031, Refueling Operations began. At 1118, the attack occurred.

Oops, that sentence belongs at the end of the Tommy Franks quote.

[doorgunner69]

If I recall correctly, it was a scow coming alongside to do maintenance painting.

[brooklin]

“Pissed off russian putin looks to save face gives ultra high explosives to the Izlambies to get us (supposedly) back for sinking the Kursk. Thoughts?”

Unlikely. Needs more than 2 days from planning to execution.

[Enterprise]

Thank you!

[Walkingfeather]

Kursk sunk august 14th 2000

USS Cole bombing October 12th 2000

2 days?

[Donnaplume]

ancient history (if true and I have doubts) I was talking relevant history since we invaded and occupied Iraq over wmd that werten’t there.NO SHIA suicide bombers. Its important in determining the excuse for occupying another country with your kids and your money. Don’t you think its important?

[Sender]

Good point. Continue to sink them, then. Deck gunners, fire at will!

[brooklin]

Ahh... yeah, got to pay attention.

Still the russians are unlikely to have had anything to do with the Cole. Not in their interests.

[Red6]

I. Your first point: Shi’ia suicide bombers

Israel is rocked by suicide bombers who are shi’ia. We have been attacked by suicide bombers who are shi’ia. In Iraq you have suicide attacks on convoys etc. by people who are shi’ia.

What you are doing now is engaging in the act of “redefining” what you said so that you can save face. Even in the spirit of what you are now trying to redefine your words of having meant, you are still wrong.

If you keep narrowing it down you might eventually be right. Exclude suicide attacks that failed, men, with rifle or RPG, outside Iraq, and in the past you can be right with the statement: “There have been no successful Iraqi Shi’ia suicide bombers in Iraq since we invaded.” Send me your email address in private and I can send you a video from where we shot dead three shi’ia men trying to do a suicide attack on a traffic control point near Sadr City (Nov 2003). But since this was no attack with a “bomb,” rather small arms and RPGs your definition would not apply.

II. Your second point: The liberal battle cry “No WMD!”

Then you engage in the act of singling out one single aspect and ignoring everything else to make some moot point which is intended to attack the legitimacy of the action in Iraq.

• What is proven is that Iraq had missiles in excess of the maximum range allowed by UN mandate, as they fired them into Kuwait at the begin of the war.

• That Saddam was paying money to families of suicide bombers who were attacking targets in Israel (Some of them Shi’ia BTW – but never mind that we exclude that from our narrow definition right?).

• That US planes enforcing the no-fly zones were being engaged nearly on a weekly basis with AAA and SAMs.

• That he violated the no fly and no wheel zones on various occasions and we had to build up troops several times in response.

• That UN weapon inspectors were restricted and harassed to the point where they were unable to perform their assigned duties and left.

• That various terrorists involved in past attacks such as the Achila Laura and various others were living as free men in Baghdad with the knowledge of this regime.

Furthermore, you might want to read the report on Iraq and WMD, because it does not state there “were no WMD,” an oversimplified generalization stated in the media but not stated in the CIA and Congressional reports. In fact some WMD have indeed been found and even a media that attempts to spin it usually refers to it as “No **substantial** amounts of WMD were found” (Newsweek 2004). Maybe you can tell the two soldiers exposed to Sarin gas in 2004 that their injuries are “minor” like the media did (This came after the Newsweek article): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808 But you’re probably right. There were absolutely no WMD found – None what so ever.

Summary

In both points you or those feeding you the horse $hit are simply playing games by redefining the scenario so that you can make some point which is moot anyhow. By narrowing the scope you eventually focus on one aspect WMD; since this is the one point where the anti-war agenda at least thinks they have an argument. You then define Shi’ia attacks only in recent times, in Iraq, and only those that use bombs, so that you can paint some picture that isn’t accurate. Let me clue you in, Muqtada al Sadr and his militia are Shi’ia. Iran which is partially financing, logistically supporting an insurgency and some Militia’s is Shi’ia. You have terrorist groups in Iraq that are Shi’ia.

You’re attempting to make some points on false premises which are essentially moot anyhow. We can not cut our losses with Iraq because the price would be too high. May it be the instability of the Middle East, the rise in power for Iran and Russia, loss in confidence in the US world wide, the massive humanitarian disaster that would ensue, the loss over vital strategic resources which would now fall under a despot regime may it be Iraq or Iran power based…….. there is no alternative besides foreword and establishing a self governing and sustaining republic of Iraq. There is no option, we must finish Iraq and achieve a positive resolution.

[Doe Eyes]

Apparently discussing classified documents when American sailors are at risk isn't a problem at the NY Times.

This thread should be immediately pulled.

[enough_idiocy]

“a classified, $250 million war game in which small, agile speedboats swarmed a naval convoy to inflict devastating damage on more powerful warships.”

we needed $250M to learn what the USS Cole attack already showed?

someone should send Ron Paul the memo.

[COBOL2Java]

Apparently discussing classified documents when American sailors are at risk isn't a problem at the NY Times.

Security classifications are to the NY Times what copyright laws are to the ChiComms.

[Red6]

Let me give you an example of how ignorant your statement is even if it were true, which it is not:

Mohammed Bouyeri is shi’ia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

He shot and stabbed Theo van Gogh dead because he produced a film critical of Islam.

But since this was not in Iraq, since this wasn’t a suicide bombing, this does not count according to your “definition.”