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Free speech vs. hate speech
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 1/4/8 | Safaa Ibrahim

Posted on 01/04/2008 10:38:18 AM PST by SmithL

Cinnamon Stillwell's recent column in SF Gate, "Savage vs. CAIR: The battle over free speech" on Dec. 19 offers a holiday assortment of misleading truths and omissions of facts. In her misguided defense of the "Savage Nation" radio show, Stillwell essentially defends anarchistic hate against minority groups including African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, immigrants and women. She does so under the pretense of defending free speech.

Of course, most elementary school students will tell you that hate speech is not to be confused with free speech.

CAIR, the California Council of Churches, Rabbi Haim Dov Beilak and other Hate Hurts America Coalition coalition members cherish America's tradition of freedom of speech. HHA is practicing its own freedom of speech when it calls people of conscience to stand up against Michael Savage's hate-filled anti-minority tirades.

Stillwell's wrath against CAIR and other HHA members as a mere consequence of their advocacy against hate speech puts in question her credibility as a columnist.

Is Stillwell arguing that the incitement of violence against minorities is protected under free speech, or did she just never chance upon the numerous times Savage has advocated hateful acts against many other minority groups.

It cannot possibly be the latter because Savage's record is out there for all to see. In 2004, Savage stated "I think (Muslims) need to be forcibly converted to Christianity ... It's the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings." In 2006, he called for a ban on Muslim immigration and recommended making "the construction of mosques illegal in America." Also that year, he advocated "kill(ing) 100 million" Muslims.

Luckily, many Americans who become familiar with his divisive hatemongering have not fallen prey to Stillwell's expediency. A growing list of companies including AutoZone, Citrix, TrustedID, JC Penney, OfficeMax, Wal-Mart, andAT&T...

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 1stamendmentattack; cair; ropma; savage; seenthelight; terrorsupporters
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This is a follow-up to this thread: Savage vs. CAIR: The battle over free speech.

The terrorists, and their supporters continue to brand all speech as hate speech, if they disagree with it. And in doing so, the terrorists, and their supporters, continue their unrelenting attack on our constitution and our liberties.

1 posted on 01/04/2008 10:38:19 AM PST by SmithL
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To: Cool Guy; CounterCounterCulture; Arkat Kingtroll; pbear8; Jerez2; SunStar; Mr. Jeeves; ...
Cinnamon Stillwell Ping


FReepMail me if you want on, or off this low-volume Ping list.

2 posted on 01/04/2008 10:39:05 AM PST by SmithL (Fred!)
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To: SmithL
In 2004, Savage stated "I think (Muslims) need to be forcibly converted to Christianity ... It's the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings." In 2006, he called for a ban on Muslim immigration and recommended making "the construction of mosques illegal in America."

Sounds like a plan.

3 posted on 01/04/2008 10:47:19 AM PST by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: SmithL

“Death to America!” - Free Speech
“Death to Radical Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorists!” - Hate Speech

Our nation is doomed.


4 posted on 01/04/2008 10:48:40 AM PST by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
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To: SmithL
He, she or It accuses Savage of Hate Speech against eight groups in that article but only quotes Savages criticism of CAIR which if you call it respected makes The Bund look revered.
5 posted on 01/04/2008 10:51:33 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: SmithL
San Francisco Chronicle - Safaa Ibrahim

The author is a SanFransicko Muslim... tells it all.

Michael Savage (...) hate-speech against (...)Jews

Does the moron muslim author actually know that Michael Weiner (aka Savage) is a pro-Israel Jew?

6 posted on 01/04/2008 10:52:01 AM PST by SolidWood (Al Gore: "I have never heard of this, but I think it is a very good idea,")
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To: SmithL

Most of Michael Savage’s comments are taken out of text. I support Mr. Savage and have even donated to the lawsuit agaist CAIR. Please help fight Isamofacism and vist michaelsavage.com. To label any speech is a direct attempt to limit free speech. Lets not omit the fact the Mr. Savage is suing CAIR not the other way around. CAIR has slander Mr. Savage and continue to do so, now their gonna have to pay the price.


7 posted on 01/04/2008 10:52:02 AM PST by AmericanGunner
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To: SmithL

Hey, Safaa Ibrahim.

Get back to me when your co-religionists stop hijacking airplanes, flying them into buildings, blowing up supermarkets, pubs, busses, trains and schools, sawing-off innocent people’s heads, and calling for the extermination of the Jews in your textbooks.

Okay?

Until then, hearing you mewling about “hate” speech would be laughable, if your “religion” were not so unspeakably evil at its core and the single greatest threat to civilization for the entire 1400 years of its miserable existence.


8 posted on 01/04/2008 10:52:28 AM PST by Westbrook
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel, WOT

..................

Is Stillwell arguing that the incitement of violence against minorities is protected under free speech, or did she just never chance upon the numerous times Savage has advocated hateful acts against many other minority groups.

I'm not a big Savage fan, and doubt that he's incited violence against minorities, but if he has, the answer to Safaa Ibrahim's question is that it's absolutely protected under free speech, as it should be. The solution lies in directly confronting the hateful comments.

Having read many of Mr. Ibrahim's co-religionists comments, he should be concerned about getting what he asks for, though he won't.

9 posted on 01/04/2008 10:54:47 AM PST by SJackson (If 45 million children had lived, they'd be defending America, filling jobs, paying SS-Z. Miller)
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To: SmithL
"Of course, most elementary school students will tell you that hate speech is not to be confused with free speech."

Thank God most folks don't really on school kids to interpret the Constitution for them.

Unlike "Safaa Ibrahim"

10 posted on 01/04/2008 10:56:14 AM PST by Redbob
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To: SmithL
Speechcrime is defined by whomever is in power.

It is one step away from thoughtcrime, as speechcrime reveals thoughtcrime.

If we let this happen we will be authorizing a repressive state heading to de facto shari’a law

11 posted on 01/04/2008 11:01:05 AM PST by DBrow
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To: SmithL

Hey Safaa - shove it in your hijab!


12 posted on 01/04/2008 11:05:30 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: SmithL
I thought that "Congress shall make no law... abridging (curtailing) the freedom of speech..."

So what is "hate" speech if not speech?

13 posted on 01/04/2008 11:06:25 AM PST by avacado
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To: DBrow
Bingo.

This is why the whole concept of Hate Speech is flawed. When I say something, that's Free Speech. When you disagree with me, you're a Hater and you should just shut up.

It's ludicrous.

14 posted on 01/04/2008 11:07:36 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: SmithL

Hate speech is any speech the left and the mohammedans disagree with.


15 posted on 01/04/2008 11:18:54 AM PST by ought-six
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To: Westbrook

Amen, amen, and right on!!


16 posted on 01/04/2008 11:22:19 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (A voter wavering between wanting radical change and burning the damn place down)
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To: SmithL
Where does "hate" speech appear in the constitution?

These folks just want to shut up the people who they disagree w/.

This is a very important precendent and given the USSC ruling on CFR I wouldn't bet against the libs.

17 posted on 01/04/2008 11:40:10 AM PST by Pietro
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To: SmithL

The Hate Hurts America Coalition?

Am I still allowed to say that I hate the Hate Hurts America Coalition?

Or is that “hate speech”?


18 posted on 01/04/2008 11:49:29 AM PST by mojito
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To: SmithL

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

Sorry, buddy, there’s nothing in there about comments which piss you off or make you feel uncomfortable.

And about the establishment of religion... you had better not be planning to force me to be any religion I don’t want to be, either.


19 posted on 01/04/2008 11:55:55 AM PST by redpoll
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To: SubGeniusX; traviskicks

thought crimes ping.


20 posted on 01/04/2008 11:56:21 AM PST by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; The majority are satisfied with a just master. -- Sallust)
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