Posted on 10/11/2007 5:20:46 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Here is a copy of the first article I read, but I will address what I found out from Senators Boxers office and Sen. Fienstiens office today (10/11/07). I know this has been posted here before, BUT, it has now PASSED in Congress!
Read on:
Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns Larry Pratt
Sunday September 23, 2007
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system.
Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation. The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).
Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level.
Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse?
Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on Veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser.
Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed.
It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred for life from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong.
If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
BTTT
Is this true? I will have my membership cancelled within the hour if it is.
Put this in an email and send it to EVERYONE you know. We have to call our Senators and do it quickly. This Bill “has to DIE OUT! We need to KILL THIS BILL!
It’s for our Troops, it’s for our Vets!
And it’s for our Constitution which is under attack!
No, it's not passed the Senate YET!
Just the House!
But the fact it passed the Democratically controlled house is frightening enough!
When I called Boxer and Feinsteins office they admit it IS coming up for a vote, in my distraught stage, I didn't ask WHEN!
But I can tell you it is being "snuck in" without much fan fare. (Why haven't we heard opponents of it either?)
They are taking away our troops Constitutional rights to bear arms!
They can carry arms, kill people to protect this country, but by gosh, when they get home, they will loose all their rights to bear arms upon re-entering their homeland if they seek any kind of help We are all in danger of losing our right to bear arms if this passes. Because these troops have committed no Felonies, yet they will be treated like FELONS!
Thanks for the links too.
We really need to get on the band wagon on this one, fast!
That it passed through the House is a huge slap in the faces of thousands and thousands of Vets already. Enough is enough.
Our President didn’t have anything to do with this, but he COULD Veto it if it passes both bodies!
“who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)”
These guys were all by and large treated at VA facilities.
These libtards really have a lot of faith in the government health systems that they worship now don’t they?
Thanks! And thank you for your service! I’m sure you’re as upset about this as all of us are... it’s a sad day in America when we spit in the faces of our Vets!
Violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. Gun ownership is a basic right guaranteed by the Constitution and cannot be infringed for reason of disability.
I can't think of one.
Kind of reminds me of all the polling calls I get!
They already know. They supported this atrocity. In fact they sent me a loooonnnnng e-mail "debunking" all the so called myths surrounding this bill. The idea, or so I gather, was to take the wind out of the liberals after Virginia Tech. Know what sickens me the most? I'm one of the folks it might affect. I'm not a combat vet, but I suffered for years with depression. When life was no longer any fun, I sought help at the VA. I made sure that they wouldn't submit my info to the Feds and the VA folks were very supportive. I got help and now I'm fine. Also notes were made in my file stating specifically that at no time was I ever a threat to myself or to others. Now this. It's the first time I've ever regretted my military service.
Thanks freema!!!!
Whoa... good point!
Are they going to give a gun BACK to a troop who suffered PTSD while on active duty? But was better after R&R?
Great point! Sometimes our troops are changed, sometimes forever. Like my brother. But it doesn’t mean they’d ever harm someone else.
30 some years later, I still don’t have my brother back, not like he was before he served, but he shouldn’t be punished for having served his country, nor should he be striped of his 2nd amendment rights either.
NOR should our brave men and women who are so honorably serving us today!
I hate to say it, but if we lose this war against an enemy whose total desire has been world dominance since the 1300’s happens, I hope people who hate the military are the first to suffer.
God forgive me.
Yep......this fictional rabid ass crazy veteran has all the guns he needs so their unconstitutional BS laws are moot for me and millions of other make believe boogie men that haunts their socialist sedition sects ideology.....
I am on Texas Senators today as well......snail mail, hand written, postage stamp and registered etc telling em what I think and my voting plan for folks that support this cow crap.
Yes, the NRA supports this bill. Not only have they said it many times (for instance, here at their factsheet on HR 2640 and in this article), but the Congressional discussion includes praise of how the Congress is working with the NRA on this bill.
I am a member of the NRA, and I don't support this bill. I called the NRA to talk about it, and the first person that I spoke with was the least knowledgeable individual on firearms issues that I have ever spoke with at any firearms organization (and she had a very odd accent which I would be unsurprised to find was Indian or Pakistani).
A bit frustrated, I called another number and found someone who at least had good knowledge of firearms issues. He said that if the NRA thought that any bad items might be attached to the bill that they would then withdraw their support. (A risible statement in my opinion since by that point I think that the bill would be unstoppable.)
The community is definitely split. Clayton Cramer supports HR 2640.
Every man that has been in combat has had bad dreams but, eventually they go away. This is a sham and a direct slap in the face to the Vets that fought for this nation. To tell me I can't have the basic right that I fought for is....illegal. If GWB doesn't veto this POS then haul it in front of the SCOTUS. There's no way that this is constitutional.
Thanks, BG, will do.
“We certainly are not the group they want on the rooftops, aiming at them.”
If it comes down to it, the *them* will likely side with *us*. Can’t see current Feds or military shooting our Vets. That’s of course if the UN or some other foreign entity doesn’t show up to do the dirty work.
The NICS Improvement Bill: Myth and Reality
Clearing the Air on the Instant Check Bill (H.R. 2640)
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