"If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all."
— Rep. Henry Waxman
Posted on 10/11/2007 5:20:46 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Here is a copy of the first article I read, but I will address what I found out from Senators Boxers office and Sen. Fienstiens office today (10/11/07). I know this has been posted here before, BUT, it has now PASSED in Congress!
Read on:
Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns Larry Pratt
Sunday September 23, 2007
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system.
Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation. The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).
Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level.
Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse?
Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on Veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser.
Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed.
It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred for life from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong.
If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
Are there any records to prove Vets with guns are anymore likely to commit a crime than others?
If passed, I could see this blowing up into something very bad.
Exactly, and they deserve WAY more than this from a country they love and served. I’ve never seen anything more sickening in my life.
Even today, I find I’m waking up thinking this can’t happen in America. That we surely wouldn’t treat our troops this way. But the House already passed it... and indeed it’s going to the Senate for a vote.
God willing, decent, TROOP LOVING Americans, will come to their rescue and will make call in campaigns to their Senators and stop this madness! But we need to do it now and by the thousands!
"If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all."
— Rep. Henry Waxman
MOLON LABE ! ! !
You know, I don’t know if there is, but someone who is savvy here always knows those things. We’ve been so busy raising our grandson who we’ve adopted, I’m out of the loop these days.
But I’d LOVE to see that list too!
They are definitely traitors no matter what side of the aisle they are on!
Thanks, and in my “upset” I put congress when it should have been “House”. But I hope everyone realizes that if it’s going to the Senate next, it went through the House first. 1/2 of the Congress!
Thanks again for the Bump!
We just can’t let this happen to our Vets!
And what about heart patients? Can they really take the stress of shooting a gun? All that adrenaline pumping into an unhealthy heart? People need to be afraid of the thinking of these kinds of people, very afraid!
Thanks for bumping it and please make the calls too!
And it wouldn’t hurt to bump this on the weekend so others see it and make calls too! It’s for our Vets, and those who will be Vets after having served multiple tours! They need our help, BIG TIME!
FRegards!
I'm not sure what you mean by that FRiend.
It wouldn't be the first time in the past few years I've been slow. It goes with my "new" territory (disability). Heck, my condition will be one categorized as unfit to have a gun in the future too! No home protection allowed in this home if the Dems have their way.
Anyway, can you explain what you meant to me, because I can't see good news in it. Thanks.
FRegards
PS. And I want to emphasize, I’m sure I misread your post. I have bad days! Thanks.
You’re welcome. It’s heartbreaking and It’s true!
NOTHING that Congress has ever voted on has upset us more.
Please make the calls.
> I want the list on who voted for this... <
Voice vote
I know that when I called and gave BOTH offices EXACTLY what I posted in the TITLE.. with the parenthesis and the Roman numerals, they said I told them it right.
That it was TRUE, and that it was pertaining to Veterans with PTSD having their GUNS TAKEN away. PERMANENTLY!
So please, if you have a better way of saying it, please post it!
This got my message across to the Senators office.
If this isn’t true information we need to know!
So please by all means help!
They seemed to know exactly what I was talking about immediately, AND as I was explaining the title, they even helped say it.
?
FRegards, VH&W
Exactly, it’s the Dems thinly veiled attempt at taking away our Second Amendment rights.
And a COWARDLY act by doing it through our nations hero’s!
It’s NOT!
Our Vets have a Constitutional right to own arms. They are not FELONS and now this!
>Are there any records to prove Vets with guns are anymore likely to commit a crime than others?
If passed, I could see this blowing up into something very bad.>
I think they’re messing with the wrong crowd this time. Vets know what return live fire feels like and after the first flinch we calm down pretty quickly. We certainly are not the group they want on the rooftops, aiming at them.
How do we find out if the NRA had anything to do with this?
Thanks
This only the first step folks. This is the beginning of the end of private firearm ownership in this country. CWII here we come.
This cannot happen. They’ve gone to far already in our book!
It only took me 5 minutes (if that) to call two Senators offices. (And it was Boxer and Feinstein... NOT EASY TO DO!)
But this also needs to get out to any media that will give a da*n!
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