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Posted on 09/06/2007 5:51:55 AM PDT by SJackson
(CNSNews.com) - Building a fence across the entire 1,952-mile border of the United States and Mexico can be done, with only two requirements needed, according to engineers.
"All it takes is time and money," said Brian Damkroger, senior manager for border security and exploratory systems at the New Mexico-based Sandia National Laboratories.
Sandia is working with the federal government in securing the border through a border fence and other measures. Sandia also helped design the 15-foot-high, 14-mile-long, double layer security fence in San Diego, viewed by fence proponents as a model of what works in deterring illegal immigration.
A border wall could be constructed across the southern border probably in less than five years if the federal government devoted multiple crews to the project to work on different sections of the wall concurrently, said David Hunley, vice president of Connico, Inc. a Nashville-based engineering firm.
"It's a large-scale project, but it's not high tech," Hunley said. "You just have to have the people to throw at it. You would also need the political will to do it."
At present, the federal government doesn't plan on fencing off half of the entire border. Rather, Congress approved and President Bush signed a bill last year authorizing the construction of 854 miles of fencing to strategically seal 700 miles of the border.
Actual cost estimates for the 700 miles of secure border vary widely, between $3 million per mile initially estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to the far larger potential of $70 million per mile to build and maintain, according to a December 2006 Congressional Research Service report.
The high estimate for the entire wall is partially based on the past cost of litigation during the construction of the San Diego fence, said a spokesman for Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).
That should not be an issue now, spokesman Joe Kasper told Cybercast News Service, because those issues were settled in court while Congress has granted the Department of Homeland Security broad powers to construct a border-wall.
Since that Secure Fence Act was signed, fewer than 20 miles of fencing have been built.
That prompted Hunter to write a letter to the White House last month, in which the Republican presidential candidate called the "lack of progress unacceptable, especially when adequate funding is available to earnestly proceed with fence construction."
Specifically, Hunter pointed to a 392-mile stretch of fence that is supposed to be completed from Calexico, Calif., to Douglas, Ariz., by May 30, 2008, and another 30 miles of fencing that is supposed to be completed in Laredo, Texas, by the end of 2008.
"Unfortunately, these scheduled mandates will be missed unless fence construction commences immediately in these locations," Hunter wrote.
Counting infrastructure built prior to the 2006 Secure Fence Act, the southern border already has more than 100 miles of fencing, said Laura Keehner, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security.
By the end of 2008, the department expects to have a total of 370 miles of fencing constructed, Keehner told Cybercast News Service.
The timeline for the entire 700 miles of fencing is tentative, she said. But, it is likely that some of that would come from a "virtual fence" - a large area protected through various electronic security measures.
The "virtual fence" concept has its critics in Congress, including Hunter, who believes the concept is unproven. Hunter argues that the Secure Fence Act specified that a physical fence be built.
What the experts say
Damkroger, head of border patrol projects for Sandia National Laboratories, doesn't discount "virtual fences." His firm has designed fences that use a combination of censors, such as infrared, seismic, radar and over-flights.
The goal of this technology, he said, is to detect and identify the intruder, characterize the threat, and respond.
"In urban areas, we need a physical fence," Damkroger told Cybercast News Service, because there is a great chance of an intruder eluding law enforcement. "Out in the desert, there is the ability through surveillance to see someone before he reaches the border, and more time to respond."
Also designed by Sandia, was the anti-climb material on the San Diego fence. This material is made of high-strength steel mesh, said Damkroger.
"The holes are very small so it would be difficult to get toe and hand holds," he said.
Should a climber reach the top, the fence is designed in such a way the intruder would have to climb upside down to get over the top, he said.
In the early 1990s, Sandia designed the concept of a three-layered security fence. The primary layer would be solid steel. The second layer would be the anti-climb fence, and the third would be a more conventional fence.
Each layer would have a road between it for the U.S. Border Patrol to access, Damkroger said.
The Secure Border Initiative of 2005 already has long-range plans in the works for securing 6,500 miles along both the Mexican and Canadian border that involves physical fences and technology.
The materials used for the border fence as well as the size of the fence, are still undetermined, said Judy Marsicano, spokeswoman for the Fort Worth, Texas, district office of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is overseeing the 700-mile fencing project.
"It will depend on terrain; whether it's urban, rural or mountainous," Marsicano told Cybercast News Service. "We don't have that."
But Marsicano said the material in most areas of the physical fence would be made of either steel or concrete. She also said it could include multiple different contractors - so different sections of the fence could be made of different material. The government is working to get input from stakeholders, including landowners who will be asked to sell.
She also said the government is conducting an environmental and engineering assessment, which will determine a more precise cost for the project.
Such a security fence could run into environmental problems, said Hunley of Connico, which has been involved in constructing security fences for 25 years, mostly at airports.
At the bottom of the fence, for example, holes are usually small to keep both people and animals out. That can lead to small-scale flooding, he said.
"It can keep people and animals out, but it keeps trash out as well," Hunley told Cybercast News Service. "That can lead to drainage problems. A puddle around it can become huge."
Problems could also emerge concerning issues of waterways, habitat accustomed to crossing the border uninterrupted, and Native American burial grounds located along the border, said Hunley.
Security fences typically go eight to 10 inches into the ground to deter people from digging under, said Hunley, while security cameras could be installed on the fence, along with large lights for further deterrence.
Ultimately, Hunley said, a fence would help, but it is far from a guaranteed solution to protecting the border.
"It will only be as effective as the people who patrol it," he said.
Will a real border fence work?
Critics of the fence say illegal aliens will simply climb the fence, or the fence would just reroute illegal aliens to enter the country elsewhere.
"A border fence is one part of the strategy," Kasper told Cybercast News Service. "It's not a silver bullet. It has to be accompanied by technology. Just look at the success of the San Diego fence. If someone does attempt to get round the wall, Border Patrol agents have more of an opportunity to apprehend them."
In 1996, Congress approved a double-layered fence - with a steel fence as the primary layer, and an anti-climb fence as the second layer - for 14 miles along the border of San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.
The fence has produced some improvement in the area, according to a Congressional Research Service report in 2005 that said illegal alien apprehensions along the fence region dropped from 202,000 in 1992 to 9,000 in 2004.
Meanwhile, vehicle drive-throughs in the region have fallen from between six to 10 per day before the construction of the fence to four drive-throughs for the entire year of 2004. Crime in San Diego dropped 56.3 percent between 1989 and 2000, according to the FBI Crime Index.
However, a separate Congressional Research Service report from last December said that although illegal immigration is down in San Diego, "the flow of illegal immigration has adapted" and "shifted to the more remote areas of the Arizona desert."
Critics and some proponents of a border fence have referenced the Berlin Wall - used to prevent emigration from communist East Germany to West Germany during the Cold War - which used draconian tactics, such as mines and shooting on sight.
However, a more appropriate comparison might be the Israeli West Bank Barrier, which measured 436 miles long and was used to keep out terrorists.
According to an Israeli government report, the wall was successful.
Between April and December of 2002 - before the wall - 17 suicide attacks were committed within Israel by terrorists who infiltrated from Samaria. Yet in 2003, after the construction of the Samaria section of the wall, there were only five attacks. In Judea, where no fence was built, suicide attacks remained the constant, according to the report.
One group that isn't waiting on the federal government is the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a citizen anti-illegal immigration group based in Arizona. Through volunteer work and donations, the group is constructing a double-layered fence on ranch land donated in Bisbee, Ariz., with material similar to the San Diego fence. They began two years ago, and now have 10 miles of fencing.
"It's not a virtual fence, it's a real fence," Minutemen Executive Director Al Garza told Cybercast News Service. "Our objective is to show the federal government it is not virtually impossible to stop the flow of illegal immigrants."
If someone should cry "cruel and unusual punishment," we could limit the labor pool to those who had been working in consttruction and landscaping when they were arrested...
Please see my recent post re: how we might cut the cost of the project by eliminating the “labor” category of the project budget...
To quote Paul Begala, "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool." This would be made much easier if we rightly declared war on Mexico....
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The Saudi’s have been building a 550 mile fence on the border of Iraq designed to keep Iraqi’s out. The Saudi’s are building it in their typical fashion by sparing no expense whatsoever.
Thousands of years of history prove that well built fences do work very vell. It is utterly ridiculous that a high-tech double fence with a buffer zone, guard towers, electronic surveillance, satellite coverage, etc. has not already been built along the entire length of the border with Mexico.
A well built fence would force millions of unhappy Mexicans to work on removing the corruption in their own country instead of crossing the border illegally and becoming criminals in America. These Mexican criminals cost American taypayers an average of $22,000 in government services per illegal family of 4 per year - we can’t afford this nonsense!
I’m convinced that there are too many people in Washington that simply don’t want it built. Yet another reason why America desperately needs Congressional Term Limits - and a high-tech fence with Mexico.
ping
However, terrorists of all stripes ARE making their way across these overland foot routes and we need to deal with them too. To say that the fence is not a valuable tool in keeping out terrorists is a lie.
Also, we need to keep out the mass drug shipments that are hauled in by 4 wheel drive. To say that the fence is not for keeping out drugs is a lie.
The fence is for enforcing the border and all that that entails.
Now, you seem to have been a little dishonest with your presentation; you seem to have some underlying agenda. So instead of lecturing the rest of us on honesty why don't you tell us what your point is. Do you think we are too mean to the illegal aliens? Do you think American industry and agriculture will fail without illegal labor? What is your point that you are holding back?
Huh? Where?
shown terrorists coming over that border
I'd like to know their names, the acts of terror they committed, and their trial dates or date of death if a suicide bomber. By my best recollection, the 93 and 01 WTC terrorists all flew into the US from the middle east. That would seem to be the real source of our security issues.
More of us die every year at the hand of illegal aliens that crossed that border than died on 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan put together.
Sorry, but illegal aliens are not responsible for 6000+ murders per year. This is what I mean that the cause of immigration reform and border security is not served by lies and misinformation.
Border security and immigration reform.
This is what most of our southern border looks like: there is no government-built fence at all. There is often just whatever is left over from some forgotten cattle fence, built privately to keep U.S. cattle from wandering freely into Mexico. For hundreds of miles there is not even a broken cattle fence, there is nothing at all.
For comparison, below the broken cattle fence photo is a sample of an inexpensive but highly effective double border fence system, with a plowed strip to reveal footprints. This type of system is very cheap and can be built with great speed.
Here is what some of San Diego County has: a wall made of rusty Viet Nam-era runway mats. The corrugations are even horizontal, (to make climbing easier?)
Here is what the border looks like where the runway mat wall exists. Mexico begins on the other side of the ineffective rusty wall, which actually helps the smugglers, by hiding their movements until the occasional USBP vehicle has driven out of sight.
This is how "the game" is played. Smugglers hide on the other side of the wall with their dope and/or their illegals, out of sight of the USBP. They wait for the highly visible white BP vehicle to drive over the distant hills. Lookouts with cell phones and walkie-talkies report on the current locations of the BP units. They know with certainty that "the coast is clear" for an hour or two, and the smugglers and illegals hop the fence and run into the scrub only 50 yards away. From there, they are out of sight, and they walk 1-2 miles to holding houses. Then they wait for nightfall, and are picked up and driven in vans to LA or San Diego.
Next, we see the Duncan Hunter 15' fence, which is already being built along a few "showplace" miles of San Diego, mainly near the ports of entry, where panderng politicians can conveniently show it off to gullible reporters. As you can see, the rusty runway wall is seen at the left side, Mexico begins on the other side. In areas with the 15 foot fence, dope smugglers and illegals will have to cross the open sand ("the government road" as it is called) before starting to try to get over the 15 foot fence.
This new fence is extremely tough, and resists cutting. Attacking the fence would have to be done right out in the open, in full view of cameras. This type of fence, on the U.S. side of the government road, will give the USBP a barrier to patrol, instead of forcing them to chase illegals around 100,000 square miles of wide-open frontier land, which is a fool's errand. Everywhere this modern multiple fence system has been built, crossings by illegals drop to almost nil.
This ain't rocket science, folks. We're not talking about something like the Hoover Dam project, (which we managed to build 70 years ago). The world's last superpower, which put a man on the moon 35 years ago, can build a couple thousand miles of simple and effective fencing.
This is how it's being built in San Diego county, along the last 14 miles out to the ocean. The total cost of the entire fence from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific would be about 5 billion dollars, or what we spend medicating, hospitalizing, educating, and incarcerating illegal aliens just about every month. In other words, the fence would pay for itself immediately.
Or, we can continue our current policy.
I suspect you’ve seen all the material about terrorists coming over, being caught at the border, as well as the staging grounds for them in ‘latin america’, but here it is AGAIN.
President Bush’s top intelligence aide has confirmed that Iraqi terrorists have been captured coming into the United States from Mexico.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1886019/posts
“McConnell said terrorists have been crossing the Southwest border, but the numbers and other details are classified, according to intelligence officials. He points to Mahmoud Youssef Kourani, whose case became public when he was tried in a U.S. court. Kourani, who entered the country through Tijuana, Mexico, in 2001, pleaded guilty to helping Hezbollah raise money in the Detroit suburb where he lived. Hezbollah has been designated by the United States as a terrorist organization.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/rds_archivesearch/ci_6683672
I really have a tough time believing this, seeing as we have a dearth of terrorist acts in this country. It seems to me people cry "terrorism" nowadays just before they reach into your wallet or take away one of your rights.
the fence is for keeping out illegals ... To say that the fence is not for keeping out drugs is a lie
I agree entirely, and these are all excellent reasons.
Do you think we are too mean to the illegal aliens?
No we aren't mean to them.
I think illegals face a mean situation - paying thousands to gang-connected smugglers, crossing inhospitable terrain where hundreds die. From a perspective of common decency towards humanity, this is wrong. We shouldn't be indifferent to the plight of other humans risking and losing their lives and money just to try to get a job. "There but for the grace of God go I." We need policies that are much more harsh towards lawbreakers and smugglers, and are also inviting to people who want to work, follow the law, and pay taxes. I have no problem with someone who wants to come here from Mexico and work and help shoulder our tax burden, especially if he also wants to return home after a short stay.
The punishment for smugglers (of humans and drugs) needs to be very punitive, draconian, and immediate. Summary executions work for me. Its not like foreign invaders are entitled to constitutional protections and trial by jury. The punishment for criminal aliens also needs to be much harsher. I especially dislike the idea of illegals committing crimes in the US and then getting to live off us for years while filling our prisons and wasting our court docket space. Immediate deporation following severe corporal punishment sounds much better, and would certainly be much cheaper.
For people who want to work and follow the rules, I have no objection to a seasonal guest-worker program. This should be coupled with registration of aliens with the police as to place of living and tracking of movement between employers. Employing foreigners for cheap should be a bit burdensome in terms of paperwork for those wanting the benefit for their farm or business. The paperwork should also put the liability for these people and their actions on the employers.
Do you think American industry and agriculture will fail without illegal labor?
It certainly would initially during the period of immediate dislocation if we could simply deport or scare off all the illegals in a short span of time like Ike did. The question is whether resident Americans would then take up the jobs they have been working instead of sitting around loafing on welfare and unemployment, or sitting around as clerks in the endless number of chain outlets that have been seemingly overbuilt through out the land.
It's about illegals. It's about terrorists. It's about drug smuggling. It's about the trash bags from Tucson to Nogales.
Stop being such a pedantic pain in the neck. It's all of those reasons and more.
And, BTW, forcing this to an either/or proposition is also and obviously disingenuous.
Hunter brought out the fact that it costs $3 BILLION EACH YEAR to incarcerate illegals in prisons.
We CANNOT afford not to build the fence.
Specifically, Hunter pointed to a 392-mile stretch of fence that is supposed to be completed from Calexico, Calif., to Douglas, Ariz., by May 30, 2008, and another 30 miles of fencing that is supposed to be completed in Laredo, Texas, by the end of 2008.
"Unfortunately, these scheduled mandates will be missed unless fence construction commences immediately in these locations," Hunter wrote.
Once again, we see for the hundredteenth time Duncan Hunter doggedly pushing, pulling, and shoving our inept government towards protecting its citizenry. I wonder why we don't see all the other candidates mentioned in these articles for what they are trying to do to solve the problem. Could be because they aren't problem solvers. Could be they aren't real leaders like Duncan Hunter. Could be they just talk a good game.
Virtual fence my eye....
Maybe I should complete a virtual tax return this year to pay for the virtual fence.
As far as “environmental impacts” go, put a grate under the fence for water flow, kink the fence for archaological sites, and so on. It’s not rocket science. Really.
Has anyone sent this link to Mikey Chertoff yet?
Andrew, you're absolutely right! They are responsible for more than 9,000 murders annually, statistically speaking. In fact, more Americans are killed at the hands of illegal aliens every year in America than in all the conflicts and terrorists attacks and bombings since the end of the Vietnam War, combined.
Statistically, 25 Americans die every day at the hands of illegal aliens. In one year, that equates to 9,125 dead; more than all of our military losses and civilian casualties since the Marine Barracks bombing in 1983.
Check out the attached list of names and dates. Illegal Alien Caused Murders
Consider the facts.
This is not about racism for me, it’s about guns, drugs, gangs... we as a country have a RIGHT to secure borders. We have a RIGHT to know who is entering and leaving. Right now we don’t even know if there are Arab terrorists coming into the country. We do know that there are drugs and criminals coming into the country, and that’s not okay.
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