Posted on 09/06/2007 5:51:55 AM PDT by SJackson
(CNSNews.com) - Building a fence across the entire 1,952-mile border of the United States and Mexico can be done, with only two requirements needed, according to engineers.
"All it takes is time and money," said Brian Damkroger, senior manager for border security and exploratory systems at the New Mexico-based Sandia National Laboratories.
Sandia is working with the federal government in securing the border through a border fence and other measures. Sandia also helped design the 15-foot-high, 14-mile-long, double layer security fence in San Diego, viewed by fence proponents as a model of what works in deterring illegal immigration.
A border wall could be constructed across the southern border probably in less than five years if the federal government devoted multiple crews to the project to work on different sections of the wall concurrently, said David Hunley, vice president of Connico, Inc. a Nashville-based engineering firm.
"It's a large-scale project, but it's not high tech," Hunley said. "You just have to have the people to throw at it. You would also need the political will to do it."
At present, the federal government doesn't plan on fencing off half of the entire border. Rather, Congress approved and President Bush signed a bill last year authorizing the construction of 854 miles of fencing to strategically seal 700 miles of the border.
Actual cost estimates for the 700 miles of secure border vary widely, between $3 million per mile initially estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to the far larger potential of $70 million per mile to build and maintain, according to a December 2006 Congressional Research Service report.
The high estimate for the entire wall is partially based on the past cost of litigation during the construction of the San Diego fence, said a spokesman for Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).
That should not be an issue now, spokesman Joe Kasper told Cybercast News Service, because those issues were settled in court while Congress has granted the Department of Homeland Security broad powers to construct a border-wall.
Since that Secure Fence Act was signed, fewer than 20 miles of fencing have been built.
That prompted Hunter to write a letter to the White House last month, in which the Republican presidential candidate called the "lack of progress unacceptable, especially when adequate funding is available to earnestly proceed with fence construction."
Specifically, Hunter pointed to a 392-mile stretch of fence that is supposed to be completed from Calexico, Calif., to Douglas, Ariz., by May 30, 2008, and another 30 miles of fencing that is supposed to be completed in Laredo, Texas, by the end of 2008.
"Unfortunately, these scheduled mandates will be missed unless fence construction commences immediately in these locations," Hunter wrote.
Counting infrastructure built prior to the 2006 Secure Fence Act, the southern border already has more than 100 miles of fencing, said Laura Keehner, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security.
By the end of 2008, the department expects to have a total of 370 miles of fencing constructed, Keehner told Cybercast News Service.
The timeline for the entire 700 miles of fencing is tentative, she said. But, it is likely that some of that would come from a "virtual fence" - a large area protected through various electronic security measures.
The "virtual fence" concept has its critics in Congress, including Hunter, who believes the concept is unproven. Hunter argues that the Secure Fence Act specified that a physical fence be built.
What the experts say
Damkroger, head of border patrol projects for Sandia National Laboratories, doesn't discount "virtual fences." His firm has designed fences that use a combination of censors, such as infrared, seismic, radar and over-flights.
The goal of this technology, he said, is to detect and identify the intruder, characterize the threat, and respond.
"In urban areas, we need a physical fence," Damkroger told Cybercast News Service, because there is a great chance of an intruder eluding law enforcement. "Out in the desert, there is the ability through surveillance to see someone before he reaches the border, and more time to respond."
Also designed by Sandia, was the anti-climb material on the San Diego fence. This material is made of high-strength steel mesh, said Damkroger.
"The holes are very small so it would be difficult to get toe and hand holds," he said.
Should a climber reach the top, the fence is designed in such a way the intruder would have to climb upside down to get over the top, he said.
In the early 1990s, Sandia designed the concept of a three-layered security fence. The primary layer would be solid steel. The second layer would be the anti-climb fence, and the third would be a more conventional fence.
Each layer would have a road between it for the U.S. Border Patrol to access, Damkroger said.
The Secure Border Initiative of 2005 already has long-range plans in the works for securing 6,500 miles along both the Mexican and Canadian border that involves physical fences and technology.
The materials used for the border fence as well as the size of the fence, are still undetermined, said Judy Marsicano, spokeswoman for the Fort Worth, Texas, district office of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is overseeing the 700-mile fencing project.
"It will depend on terrain; whether it's urban, rural or mountainous," Marsicano told Cybercast News Service. "We don't have that."
But Marsicano said the material in most areas of the physical fence would be made of either steel or concrete. She also said it could include multiple different contractors - so different sections of the fence could be made of different material. The government is working to get input from stakeholders, including landowners who will be asked to sell.
She also said the government is conducting an environmental and engineering assessment, which will determine a more precise cost for the project.
Such a security fence could run into environmental problems, said Hunley of Connico, which has been involved in constructing security fences for 25 years, mostly at airports.
At the bottom of the fence, for example, holes are usually small to keep both people and animals out. That can lead to small-scale flooding, he said.
"It can keep people and animals out, but it keeps trash out as well," Hunley told Cybercast News Service. "That can lead to drainage problems. A puddle around it can become huge."
Problems could also emerge concerning issues of waterways, habitat accustomed to crossing the border uninterrupted, and Native American burial grounds located along the border, said Hunley.
Security fences typically go eight to 10 inches into the ground to deter people from digging under, said Hunley, while security cameras could be installed on the fence, along with large lights for further deterrence.
Ultimately, Hunley said, a fence would help, but it is far from a guaranteed solution to protecting the border.
"It will only be as effective as the people who patrol it," he said.
Will a real border fence work?
Critics of the fence say illegal aliens will simply climb the fence, or the fence would just reroute illegal aliens to enter the country elsewhere.
"A border fence is one part of the strategy," Kasper told Cybercast News Service. "It's not a silver bullet. It has to be accompanied by technology. Just look at the success of the San Diego fence. If someone does attempt to get round the wall, Border Patrol agents have more of an opportunity to apprehend them."
In 1996, Congress approved a double-layered fence - with a steel fence as the primary layer, and an anti-climb fence as the second layer - for 14 miles along the border of San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.
The fence has produced some improvement in the area, according to a Congressional Research Service report in 2005 that said illegal alien apprehensions along the fence region dropped from 202,000 in 1992 to 9,000 in 2004.
Meanwhile, vehicle drive-throughs in the region have fallen from between six to 10 per day before the construction of the fence to four drive-throughs for the entire year of 2004. Crime in San Diego dropped 56.3 percent between 1989 and 2000, according to the FBI Crime Index.
However, a separate Congressional Research Service report from last December said that although illegal immigration is down in San Diego, "the flow of illegal immigration has adapted" and "shifted to the more remote areas of the Arizona desert."
Critics and some proponents of a border fence have referenced the Berlin Wall - used to prevent emigration from communist East Germany to West Germany during the Cold War - which used draconian tactics, such as mines and shooting on sight.
However, a more appropriate comparison might be the Israeli West Bank Barrier, which measured 436 miles long and was used to keep out terrorists.
According to an Israeli government report, the wall was successful.
Between April and December of 2002 - before the wall - 17 suicide attacks were committed within Israel by terrorists who infiltrated from Samaria. Yet in 2003, after the construction of the Samaria section of the wall, there were only five attacks. In Judea, where no fence was built, suicide attacks remained the constant, according to the report.
One group that isn't waiting on the federal government is the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a citizen anti-illegal immigration group based in Arizona. Through volunteer work and donations, the group is constructing a double-layered fence on ranch land donated in Bisbee, Ariz., with material similar to the San Diego fence. They began two years ago, and now have 10 miles of fencing.
"It's not a virtual fence, it's a real fence," Minutemen Executive Director Al Garza told Cybercast News Service. "Our objective is to show the federal government it is not virtually impossible to stop the flow of illegal immigrants."
While the world’s attention has been focused on the Israeli security barrier sealing off the West Bank, India has been building a far longer fence to keep out Islamic militants, thwart cross-border smuggling and stop human trafficking.
More than 1,300 miles of the barrier has been erected in the six years since building began. Snaking through jungles, rivers and the villages of five states, Delhi’s floodlit, 12ft double fence packed with razor wire will render India a fortress against her neighbour.
The problem India faces is that 100,000 of its citizens live and farm on a 150-yard patch of land hugging the international border known officially as “the zero line”, and they live on the wrong side of the fence’s designated path.
Entire villages, including schools, temples and mosques lie in what will effectively become no man’s land. Although Bangladeshis and Indians along the border have lived cheek by jowl for decades, and share the Bengali language and culture, relations between them are strained by suspicion.
The Indian villagers fear that once the fence is built they will be harassed by Bangladesh’s security guards. They say that locked away from Indian guards their fields and homes could be looted with impunity by Bangladeshi farmers.
Rabreya Bachhri, who lives in Jayantipur, the same village as Mr Biswas, says: “Even now the Bangladeshis cross over at night from their side and steal our cooking utensils and cows. We’re very worried about our future. India has to look after us and keep us inside the fence or it will make us Bangladeshi.”
Sandwiched between two nations, the villagers say that they get a raw deal from both countries. The Indian and Bangladeshi security forces accuse them of colluding in smuggling and illegal immigration.
Officers from India’s Border Security Force say that Bangladeshis claim they are entering India for medical treatment but do not have the required travel documents. One senior officer said: “Even those who come with documents don’t go back. The number of people coming into India is less than the number returning.”
Officials say that the fence has already stemmed the flow of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants attempting to cross into India from about 65,000 annually a decade ago to just 10,000 this year.
Shivajee Singh, a border security force inspector-general, said: “When the fence was put up the numbers came down.”
But Delhi is increasingly concerned about infiltration by militants from a country with a large, poor Muslim population that was scooped from India by partition. It accuses Bangladesh of harbouring insurgent groups fighting for accession from India from its northeastern states of Assam, Tripura and Manipur.
There are also concerns about the rise of radical Islam after the spate of bombs and violence in Bangladesh. “Militancy is a new dimension,” Mr Singh said. “Earlier people came for employment. Now we’re getting reports that they’re coming for terrorist activities.”
India has consequently accelerated the barrier’s construction, hoping to complete it by spring next year. It will also increase the number of troops along its border with Bangladesh from 45,000 to 53,000. In a move to bring villagers such as Mr Biswas inside the barrier, India has asked Dhaka to permit it to build the fence within the zero line, an area that both countries promised to keep free from defence structures in an agreement made 30 years ago.
Delhi claims that its request has so far been refused. However, a senior official of the Bangladeshi Embassy in Delhi said that talks between the two nations were continuing. “We’re always open to discussion with friends and neighbours,” he said. “But the agreement can’t just be changed by wishful thinking.”
But we WERE allowed to cut down trees during WWII.
No kidding. This whole notion that "we can't build the border fence" is nonsense. There are literally tens of thousands of miles of fence lining our interstates in this country in all sorts of terrain. Not only can we build a fence in virtually any terrain, we already have......
It's also one of the five fundamental things that the Federal gubmint is charged to do in the Constitution.....protection from foreign invasion.
Hell, the Chinese proved it centuries ago!.............
Thanks for the ping Raster. You all need to read this!
Emphasis:
At present, the federal government doesn’t plan on fencing off half of the entire border. Rather, Congress approved and President Bush signed a bill last year authorizing the construction of 854 miles of fencing to strategically seal 700 miles of the border.
Actual cost estimates for the 700 miles of secure border vary widely, between $3 million per mile initially estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to the far larger potential of $70 million per mile to build and maintain, according to a December 2006 Congressional Research Service report.
The high estimate for the entire wall is partially based on the past cost of litigation during the construction of the San Diego fence, said a spokesman for Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).
That should not be an issue now, spokesman Joe Kasper told Cybercast News Service, because those issues were settled in court while Congress has granted the Department of Homeland Security broad powers to construct a border-wall.
Since that Secure Fence Act was signed, fewer than 20 miles of fencing have been built.
That prompted Hunter to write a letter to the White House last month, in which the Republican presidential candidate called the “lack of progress unacceptable, especially when adequate funding is available to earnestly proceed with fence construction.”
When the arguments that a fence won't work are successfully rebutted ... the proponents of illegals fall back on the environmental hazards of building the fence. When all else fails, threaten a lawsuit and years of litigation.
Build the triple-layer fence and let's see the difference. If it doesn't stop illegal aliens from flowing across the border, tear it down. It's not as if the government has never wasted money before. Simple fact is that it will work and that is what a bunch of folks don't want to see happen.
Take a LOOK at what we have now. Thank you Lil Dog of the Mountain Minutemen at Patriot Point!
>>>...the proponents of illegals fall back on the environmental hazards of building the fence.
::GASPS!!::
What have you got against butterflies!!! You are heartless.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1871061/posts
Border fence seen harming ocelots, butterflies
Worthless, bottom-feeding $%#@*&! lawyers. When they're not busy bankrupting industries, they're out there undermining our sovereignty and security.
Then we ought to start with our policy of open flights and open immigration to/from Arab terrorist countries.
Illiterate Indians from Chiapas coming to pick strawberries and potatoes and gut chickens aren't terrorists.
Of course the fence really isn't about terrorists at all is it? Lets be honest about our objectives then.
WOuld she go out in public wearing 'virtual' clothing?
If that would not secure her person, then why would it secure a border?
Methinks the 'emperor' is buck-assed naked.
There will be a perpetual response to crisis situation, and it would not take long for the coyotes to figure out how to saturate the system so some people would inevitably get through.
Build the real thing, for Pete's sake, the money is there.
We need to send him more lettuce.
“This ain’t rocket science.......unless the government gets involved............”
Agreed. They should hire farmers to do it. Heck most farmers build several miles per year for nothing and end up paying for the materials themselves. For $3M/mile they would build it to milspec and laugh the whole time.
Sadly, that's the truth.
Then lets build the darn thing!
While it may not be entirely about terrorists, I think it’s just as silly to say that it isn’t about terrorists at all.
AND while “Illiterate Indians from Chiapas coming to pick strawberries and potatoes and gut chickens aren’t terrorists.” The carriers of the Qurans found along desert routes and the thugs of M16 could hardly be said to be “Illiterate Indians from Chiapas coming to pick strawberries and potatoes and gut chickens” could they?
So what is your point? (And let’s be honest.)
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