Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #4 - Des Moines, IA 08/05/07 - Official Discussion Thread

ABC

[CounterCounterCulture]

Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #4 – Des Moines, Iowa 08/05/07 - Official Discussion Thread

ABC News will be conducting a debate to be aired on This Week. The nine announced GOP presidential candidates meet in a campaign debate at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. George Stephanopoulos is the moderator; Des Moines Register political writer David Yepsen poses additional questions. Debate starts at 8 am CT (9 am ET/ 6 am PT) * check local stations for broadcast time in your area *

Candidates participating

• Sam Brownback
• Rudy Giuliani
• Mike Huckabee
• Duncan Hunter
• John McCain
• Mitt Romney
• Ron Paul
• Tom Tancredo
• Tommy Thompson

[George W. Bush]

Drudge is running a Obama "from Jane Fonda to Dr. Strangelove" headline. There's a direct link to the ABC poll there too for voting on who won this ABC Iowa debate (poll link is right above the rocket launch pic). Spam away!

Currently:

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Now that the debate's over, it's time to consider the winners and losers.

Who do you think won the Republican debate?

Ron Paul

6,407

Mitt Romney

1,154

Mike Huckabee

1,039

Rudy Giuliani

919

Nobody won. I'm voting Democratic.

678

Nobody. I'm waiting for Fred Thompson or Newt Gingrich to enter the race.

524

Tom Tancredo

274

John McCain

226

Duncan Hunter

110

Tommy Thompson

67

Sam Brownback

64

Total Vote: 11,462

Not a scientific survey.

---

[Califreak]

That was funny!

[logician2u]

Looks like Dr. Paul has it sewn up among those who participated in ABC's online poll:

Now that the debate's over, it's time to consider the winners and losers. Who do you think won the Republican debate?
Ron Paul	6,480
Mitt Romney	1,168
Mike Huckabee	1,040
Rudy Giuliani	923
Nobody won. I'm voting Democratic.	683
Nobody. I'm waiting for Fred Thompson or Newt Gingrich to enter the race.	532
Tom Tancredo	274
John McCain	227
Duncan Hunter	111
Tommy Thompson	67
Sam Brownback	66
Total Vote:	11,571

Not a scientific survey.

[deport]

his nationwide grassroots has done everything possible there (CallIowa, MailIowa, 13500 DVDs, ran their own radio ads, bought $10,000 in tickets to hand out and got a CA lawyer to spring for another $5000 in tickets; that’s 428 tickets we bought for RP that he didn’t spend a dime on, we recruited them, we sold them, we bought those tickets!).

---

That pretty much is the key to the Ames Iowa straw poll. Who can afford the tickets for their supporters to vote with and then get them to the event, some via hired buses, etc will have a huge advantage in the poll.

This year McCain, Rudy and Thompson aren’t in it thus the money side favors Romney only. So don’t count him out as of yet.

In 1999 Bush won the event, Forbes came in second and spent more money than Bush and Dole was third. Shortly after Ames the field begin to winnow with Alexander, Quayle, Dole and Buchanan all getting out. Smith has quit the GOP earlier and Kasich bailed in July.

[nctexan]

Ron Paul needs to institutionalized. And so do his supporters.

Stephanopoulos and the DEMs are thrilled to display him as an example of a Republican lune... and to disrupt any logical discussion of issues.

[The Pack Knight]

There are some candidates, most notably Tommy Thompson, following an "Iowa or Bust" campaign. Failing to achieve double digits in Ames would seem like "Bust" to me, and a good excuse to withdraw, but I'm probably wrong. The last Washington Post-ABC poll of likely caucus voters had Tommy at 4%. The full results published by the Post today are..

Mitt Romney	26
Rudy Giuliani	16
Fred Thompson	13
John McCain	8
Mike Huckabee	8
Sam Brownback	5
Tom Tancredo	5
Tommy Thompson	4
Newt Gingrich*	4
Ron Paul	2
Duncan Hunter	1

SOURCE: Iowa Republicans Are Not Thrilled With Presidential Field (Washington Post, 5 August 2007)

I agree that it's important for Ron Paul to do well there, but not as important as it is for some other candidates who have invested virtually their whole campaigns there, like Sam Brownback and Tommy Thompson have.

Another interesting stat. Only 40% of Romney supporters in this poll indicate "strong" support. There's still a lot of room for movement, and if some of the rumblings I hear are accurate, Huckabee might take some of those votes in a surprise showing. A long shot, but stranger things have happened.

* "If [Newt] were on the list of candidates, he would register 4 percent." - Article

[logician2u]

Ha! You beat me to it (while I tried to remember how to format a table in HTML :/) .

[wpa_mikeb]

so very true, and did you notice the mandatory question - what was your biggest mistake.......

The questions, the questioners and the “emailers” all came from the perspective of republcians always bad, democrats always good.

[Reagan Man]

Lending credence to one of the most wild-eyed, immature, incoherent and juvenile posters ever to appear on Free Republic, doesn’t say much for you. But then again, I’ve been reading your posts for years. No wonder you think this disciple of Kasper-Hauser is such a great forum debater. Birds of a feather..... LOL

[The Pack Knight]

Ping to post 326 if you’re still tracking polls.

[logician2u]

Your comment reveals much more about you than either Ron Paul or his supporters.

Control freak, maybe?

[maica]

that’s 428 tickets we bought for RP that he didn’t spend a dime on, we recruited them, we sold them, we bought those tickets!).

&&&&&

Can you explain what kind of tickets you are referencing? I am not up to speed on Iowa details. Thanks.

[river rat]

"When you measure up the executive experience and military records of the Republican candidates to the Democrat candidates, there is no contest. Our side is 10 times better."

Perhaps....
But when one NEEDS a horse, and all that is available from EITHER side are lambs ---- the contest become an exercise in futility...

[codercpc]

Thanks for defining me. I have not criticized your choice of candidate, or you personally yet you seem to think it is your duty to cut down me.

If Fred does become the nominee I will support him, with time and money. I just personally don't get the feeling that he wants it. As for Fred taking away Rudy's support, isn't that what the primaries are for? Why would I get upset about that? I am for whoever we, as a party put up. But if you wish to cut out what is as of right now more than a quarter of that party (Rudy supporters), then it is you who is advocating a losing strategy.

I don't need to prove my conservatism to you or any body else. After all that is subjective thing. I will tell you that I am much more of a fiscal conservative, and security conservative than I am a social conservative but if you and other Fred supporters try and define the entire party, it is you who will lose.

I am still very open as to who I will support, if Mitt keeps impressing me, it will be him. If Duncan gets out of the basement, it would certainly be him. And if Fred actually gets in the race, and says anything that impresses me, it could still be him. About the only one I have written off is Ron Paul. As of today, I feel Rudy would keep me and my family the safest, and he is the one as of today, I would support. Sorry if that doesn't fit your bill of the "real conservative", but your rigid thinking is closing out a heck of a lot of conservatives, so good luck.

[Califreak]

That’s why I like Hunter. I believe for the same reason, he is not getting the exposure that the top 3 Reps and the dems get. The media continuously ignores him. Maybe he isn’t doing enough to get his message out there, but he is actually working for us, not just promising to. I think they’re afraid if he gets a chance he actually will change things! I would love to see it happen.

Hubby says the dems will get in though, because of the country’s short attention span regarding 9/11. He might be right. I pray everyday that he will be wrong though.

[Califreak]

I thought he was a libbie mole after I heard that one.

[George W. Bush]

when Tommy was the Gov here, ... I remember a few appearances where he was drunker than a skunk, but he was always so loveable that nobody seemed to mind.

Your post reminded me of a bit of humor from the Ames Tribune. Notice Tommy gets mentioned at the end:

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DES MOINES - The Iowa Republican Party's straw poll in Ames is just days away. You can already feel the electricity.

The straw poll will be a pivotal test in the race for the GOP nomination, according to a high-ranking Republican who took time out from raking cash into piles. There will be high drama and patriotic pageantry.

Skeptical? Just feast your eyes on this (fake) schedule of straw poll events.

9 a.m. - Flat Tax Flapjacks Feed, sponsored by the American Federation of Tax Flatteners. Church-basement-strength coffee provided by Concerned Americans for Caffeine-free Worship.

9:30 a.m. - Ceremonial inflation of a five-stories-tall Mitt Romney colossus.       Location: Just west of Hilton Coliseum.

10 a.m. - Straw poll voting begins.

10: 15 a.m. - Ann Coulter's "Cooking with Liberals" class. CANCELED.

10:30 a.m. - "Up with Moderates" rally. Location: Public phone booth on the west side of Hilton Coliseum.

10:45 a.m. - "A Convenient Truth - The Myth of Climate Change" rally. Location: Future site of Iowa State University's banana plantation on Elwood Drive.

11 a.m. - "Freedom to be Fashionable" An American Flag Necktie Fashion Show. Location: Scheman Building.

11 a.m. - "Impeach Hillary" rally at Jack Trice Stadium. Hey, it's never too early to get started, just in case.

11 a.m. - Fox News Truth Booth opens. First 1,000 visitors can register for a dream date with Brit Hume.

11:05 a.m. - Unveiling of the new and improved Wall Street Journal. Meet Candy Cassady, the Journal's new Page 3 Patriot Girl, live and in person.

11:10 a.m. Workshops.

      "How to defeat a Clinton" - former House speaker Newt Gingrich. Location: American Solutions Tent.

      "Openness in American Democracy" - Vice President Dick Cheney. Location: None of your bee's wax. CANCELED

11:30 a.m. - The Rapture occurs.

11:35 a.m. - Sam Brownback drops out of the presidential race.

11:40 a.m. - Rudy Giuliani reconsiders and arrives at the straw poll.

11:45 a.m. - Fred Thompson skydives into the straw poll with the world famous flying Elvises. Location: Hilton parking lot C3.

11:55 a.m. - John McCain campaign jet flyover.

Noon - Program begins, Hilton Coliseum.

12:45 p.m. - Candidate speeches:

      Mitt Romney - "Fake Left, Run Right and Cross the Goal Line to Victory."

      Tom Tancredo - "Good, Heavily Armed, Very High, Razor-Wired, Fully Electrified Fences Make Good Neighbors."

      John Cox - "A Good Time to Head for the Concession Stand."

      Ron Paul - "Hey, Don't You Dare Groan When I'm Talking to You."

      Mike Huckabee - "I'm Reasonable, Articulate, Conservative, Smart and This is Probably My Last Speech as a Candidate."

      Duncan Hunter - "Geez, Quit Checking Your Watches."

      Tommy Thompson - "I've Been to All 99 Counties, I Ate 127 Tenderloins, and I Know How to Pronounce Nevada. You Owe Me."

6 p.m. - Voting Ends.

7 p.m. - Results are announced.

7:15 p.m. - Ron Paul Victory Party.

7:20 p.m. - Romney colossus deflation.

8 p.m. - Tommy Thompson spends the last remaining dollars in his campaign's war chest buying the house a round at Whiskey River in downtown Ames.

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All in good fun folks, it's a college town paper. I like the 7:15pm Ron Paul Victory Party but without any mention of who actually won it. LOL. RP supporters are a lively crowd all right.

There will be one or two surprises in Ames, I think. And some of the candidates will drop out or, more often, just "suspend" their campaigns.

[LordBridey]

I missed the first bit, but I pretty much agree with your assessment. Frankly, these debates help show why, for good or (mostly) ill, the frontrunners are the frontrunners, and why the rest are the rest.

Good assessment. I missed the beginning as well, but this was, I think, the first time I'd seen this gang in this format.

Giuliani impressed. He has a certain charm, and I think his political skills were displayed. Repeating the "liberal democrat" phrase is just good campaigning, and pointing out his executive experience ( which is dubious ) scored points. He displayed a sharp mind, exhibited humor, and used the debate to strengthen his position. No wonder he is a frontrunner. He will go a long way.

Thompson showed passion and an earnestness that I thought no other candidate matched, but his promise to end breast cancer by 2015 seemed a little beyond the government's capability and definitely beyond its scope.

Huckabee also stood out as being very articulate and likeable. I was very surprised by him. Another very good politician.

Noone else stood out. I'm biased toward McCain, and Romney's hair might have been a distraction.

I will remain in the Paul camp, for now, even though he does not make a particularly appealing impression on the TV. He does understand conservatism, and that sets him head and shoulders above the rest.

[traviskicks]

cool, and in case anyone wants more info on Ron Paul:
Political positions of Ron Paul (wikipedia)

[George W. Bush]

I tried to submit a vote for Mitt and got an error message.

Divine intervention? Or just a crappy webserver? I demand that Bela Pelosi launch a congressional investigation!