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Ancient fossil forest found by accident (potential major out of order problem for Darwinists)
news@nature.com (via BioEd online) ^ | April 23, 2007 | Katharine Sanderson

Posted on 07/30/2007 2:01:00 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Geologists have found the remains of a huge underground rainforest hidden in a coal mine in Illinois. The fossil forest, buried by an earthquake 300 million years ago, contains giant versions of several plant types alive today.

...

Also surprising is the presence of remains from mangrove-like plants. "It was always assumed that mangrove plants had evolved fairly recently," says Falcon-Lang.

(Excerpt) Read more at bioedonline.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ancient; catastrophism; coal; crevo; crevolist; forrest; fossil; godsgravesglyphs
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To: Bruinator
Really, thats not what science taught me in school. Hypothesis - theory - law.

Sorry, not correct.

Look at the definitions on my FR home page.

121 posted on 07/30/2007 4:24:38 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: metmom

Saying your personal interpretation of the Bible is wrong isn’t the same as attacking Christianity.


122 posted on 07/30/2007 4:25:53 PM PDT by RFC_Gal (It's not just a boulder; It's a rock! A ro-o-ock. The pioneers used to ride these babies for miles!)
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To: garbanzo
So which Christian factions no longer as a matter of official dogma believe in the divinity of Christ?

Just off the top of my head, Christian Science, Unitarianism. I'm sure there are others. Isaac Newton is generally put forth on these threads as a Christian, but he did not accept the Trinity.

123 posted on 07/30/2007 4:29:15 PM PDT by js1138
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To: garbanzo
If the Reformation happened, then why are there still Catholics?

Reminds me of the fallacious: "if evolution happened why are there still chimpanzees?" argument. But I'm not sure if your alluding to that or trying to make a serious point.

124 posted on 07/30/2007 4:33:49 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: js1138

You’re right - I hardly saw these as Christian though.


125 posted on 07/30/2007 4:35:40 PM PDT by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: ari-freedom
The scenario occurs in a Creo wet dream, not reality.
126 posted on 07/30/2007 4:35:56 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Happiness is a down sleeping bag)
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To: garbanzo
This is what we call "science" - the ability to change a theory when new facts demand it.

All the while calling the theory "proven" and ridiculing all who doubt its validity.
127 posted on 07/30/2007 4:38:19 PM PDT by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
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To: garbanzo

I’m sure they feel the same way about you.


128 posted on 07/30/2007 4:38:30 PM PDT by js1138
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To: AndyTheBear
But I'm not sure if your alluding to that or trying to make a serious point.

Both...I was conceding the point that religions do evolve over time - but it seems to be driven less by discovery of new facts as much as the idiosyncrasies of the times.

129 posted on 07/30/2007 4:39:37 PM PDT by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: Bruinator

Theory of Gravity? Ever heard of it?


130 posted on 07/30/2007 4:40:18 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: ari-freedom
"humans generally don’t live with lions (because they are dangerous) ..."

Sure they do. Africans live with them. They traditionally refrained from killing them, because they figured that it would cause the other lions to eat more people. You've got to understand that human bones aren't found amonst dinasaur bones, because they get crunched up real good when the dinosaur eats 'em. They find African's bones with lion bones, 'cause the lions can choke on a leg, or a head, and bones have no taste anyway. Dinosaurs didn't have that problem.

131 posted on 07/30/2007 4:48:39 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: dan1123
All the while calling the theory "proven" and ridiculing all who doubt its validity.

Theories are not "proven" as much as evidence is collected in favor of a particular theory. It's a question of what exactly does the new evidence question - here if you believed that mangroves had a more ancient origin - the new evidence validates your theory and refutes the mainstream view. If you believed that all life on earth arose spontaneously around 6000 years ago this has no bearing on your belief.

In science, you don't risk hell-fire if you happen to be wrong on something. Scientific theories are meant to be modified if new evidence happens to prove the old theories wrong. What many creationists wrongly believe is that any flaw in any aspect of evolutionary biology invalidates the entire field - just as perphaps among fundamentalists any error or flaw in Scripture invalidates the entire thing.

132 posted on 07/30/2007 4:50:16 PM PDT by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: garbanzo
In science, you don't risk hell-fire if you happen to be wrong on something. Scientific theories are meant to be modified if new evidence happens to prove the old theories wrong.

Conjectures are not considered theories until they are well established. I can't name off the top of my head an established theory that has been proven wrong.

More commonly, a theory is shown to have limited applicability, and is replaced by a theory covering a greater range of observations.

133 posted on 07/30/2007 4:59:59 PM PDT by js1138
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To: GodGunsGuts
A great place to start, at least for the layman, is www.detectingdesign.com. Read the entire contents of that website, especially the stuff on the geologic column, and then tell me there isn’t “a single piece of creation/ID evidence.”

Do you see a geologist for your medical problems?

I'd recommend not getting your geological information from a Medical Doctor.

But hey, there are words, numbers, and pictures and it's long! And it tells me what I want to hear!

The earth would be indeed be quickly planed flat, were it not for tectonic uplift. A wide variety of land areas on the planet are rising (and this can accurately measured year by year.)

134 posted on 07/30/2007 5:04:58 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: garbanzo
but it seems to be driven less by discovery of new facts as much as the idiosyncrasies of the times.

Like global warming?

135 posted on 07/30/2007 5:05:44 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: garbanzo
Theories are not "proven" as much as evidence is collected in favor of a particular theory.

Also, hiding behind weaselly language...

If you believed that all life on earth arose spontaneously around 6000 years ago this has no bearing on your belief.

...and arguing only against the fringe of the other side.
136 posted on 07/30/2007 5:06:59 PM PDT by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

re: your question on young earth vs. old earth creationism -

The best label that I’ve found for myself is “progressive creationist”. Here’s the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_creationism

I accept microevolution (species changing over time - sometimes very great change) but not macroevolution (one species changing into a totally different species)

I differ from the Wiki description in that I do belive the Bible is the literal word of God and that it is inerrant in the original, but I’m not convinced that there could not be large intervals of time between Genesis chapters. I don’t completely discount the YEC idea that God may have created the world with an appearance of age but I haven’t been convinced and am totally content with not ever knowing for sure.

I hope that helps :)

marinamuffy


137 posted on 07/30/2007 5:07:47 PM PDT by marinamuffy ("..pacifism ensures that cruelty will prevail on earth." - Dennis Prager/ www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Bruinator

“Sure evolution happens, but the main idea that humans came from apes is just not true. There is no link or data to support it. If it were true, why are there still apes?”

Evolution does not state that humans came from apes. It postulates that humans came from earlier forms of bipedal hominids, just as apes came from earlier forms of apes. They are 2 different evolutionary branches. And there is substantial evidence to back this up.

God has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.


138 posted on 07/30/2007 5:08:21 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pidgeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: mnehrling

Yes. The HGP has been a huge help with this problem. Junk genes are proving to be very valuable! Thanks!


139 posted on 07/30/2007 5:10:18 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pidgeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
This story also illustrates, as seen so often before, that wherever evolutionists look, they find more complexity farther back in time than they expect."

Did you actually read the article?

"The ancient forest bears little resemblance to modern equivalents. "The diversity of the first rainforests was bizarre," says Falcon-Lang.

The forest probably had about 50 different plant species, although Falcon-Lang says that this is a conservative estimate. We probably lumped several similar species together as one," he explains. Modern rainforests are more diverse, containing as many as 500 plant species per hectare.

I don't know what he means when he says "the diversity was bizarre" but the last statement there is clear enough.

140 posted on 07/30/2007 5:11:32 PM PDT by TigersEye (If you stumble a lot then the enemy's a foot.)
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