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An alternative theory on cancer (How Darwinism hinders the "War on Cancer")
Physorg.com ^ | June 27, 2007

Posted on 06/27/2007 10:57:15 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Thirty-six years into the war on cancer, scientists have not only failed to come up with a cure, but most of the newer drugs suffer from the same problems as those available in the pre-war days: serious toxicity, limited effectiveness and eventual resistance.

This is no surprise to University of California, Berkeley, genetics researcher Peter Duesberg, professor of molecular and cell biology. According to his novel yet controversial "chromosomal" theory of cancer, which is receiving increased attention among cancer researchers, each cancer is unique, and there is no magic bullet.

"The mutation theory of cancer says that a limited number of genes causes cancer, so cancers should all be more or less the same," Duesberg said. The chromosomal theory, which he laid out in an article in the May 2007 issue of Scientific American, implies instead that, "even if cancers are from the same tissue, and are generated with the same carcinogen, they are never the same. There is always a cytogenetic and a biochemical individuality in every cancer."

The most that can be expected from a drug, he said, is that it is less toxic to normal cells than cancer cells, and that as a result a cancer detected early can be knocked back by chemotherapy. His chromosomal theory offers hope of early detection, however, since it ascribes cancer to chromosomal disruption, called aneuploidy, that can be seen easily through a microscope...

(Excerpt) Read more at physorg.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: cancer; carolinavaginaman; cutnpaste; darwinism; duesbergdidit; fsmdidit; healthcare; textdump; therapy
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To: Alter Kaker

I don’t think that it is profound or novel; just as obvious as the sun on a summer day, but you evos are selectively blind as to it’s obvious consequences.

You relly made my point well.


61 posted on 06/28/2007 10:04:33 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor

Thanks for the ping!


62 posted on 06/28/2007 10:12:47 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: editor-surveyor
I'm sorry, you're saying that the existence of cancer disproves evolution?

Is this what passes for thinking in your circles?

Cancers tends to happen late in life, after childbearing. We have evolved many protections against cancers early in life, but natural selection has only a modest protective ability for individuals who have already had children past the age of maturation.

63 posted on 06/28/2007 10:14:07 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Ichneumon
Care to try again when you actually have a clue what in the hell you're talking about?

Are you kidding? That's way too much work. Science is hard, Barbie!

64 posted on 06/28/2007 11:18:14 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: Alter Kaker
Chromosomal shifts are mutations.

I'm not going to pick on your comments vis a vis evolution. They are on the mark. None of this proves or disproves evolution. Some of the folks here are trying to pound a round peg into a square hole. It just doesn't fit.

OTOH, there is a distinction between genetic mutation which could (or perhaps always) involves a change at the chromosome level and the "species change" that Duesberg refers to and specifically distinguishes from a genetic mutation.

The key difference is that it is the CHROMOSOME COUNT that changes, i.e. the genetic change is not the replacement of a "good chromosome" with a "bad chromosome" it is the generation of a larger number of chromosomes in a cell than is found in healthy human cells. This is different from what the cancer research community means when they talk about genetic mutation.

Duesberg's theory may be right or it may be wrong but it is different in kind from the current "genetic mutation" theory of cancer.

65 posted on 06/28/2007 11:18:53 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: GodGunsGuts

I find it rather egomaniacal for Duesling to claim sole credit for an idea a century old and much debated for over a decade, but considering his counterfactual position on HIV I suppose he just likes being the center of attention.


66 posted on 06/28/2007 11:34:22 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: InterceptPoint

I think the answer is, “It’s both. Now quit posturing for the camera, Duesling.”


67 posted on 06/28/2007 11:36:27 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
I think the answer is, “It’s both. Now quit posturing for the camera, Duesling.”

Pardon me but what is a "Duesling"?

68 posted on 06/28/2007 11:38:51 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: InterceptPoint

It’s a butchered version of Duesberg’s name (oops), although I like to think it means something derogatory in some language. ;-)


69 posted on 06/28/2007 11:44:44 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes

OK. So are you suggesting that I stop posting to this thread? I don’t get it. I thought this was a forum.


70 posted on 06/28/2007 11:51:36 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: InterceptPoint

Read the article you’re responding to? The guy who is tooting his horn is Duesberg. The response was not directed at you at all.


71 posted on 06/28/2007 11:57:03 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
Read the article you’re responding to?

Yes I did read the article and I read a book that went into some depth on the subject. I happen to think that Duesberg may be right. If you want to debate the facts I'm game. If it's ad hominem then I'm not interested.

72 posted on 06/28/2007 12:02:40 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: InterceptPoint

Right about what? Aneuploidy? As I said before, it’s both.


73 posted on 06/28/2007 12:04:56 PM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
As I said before, it’s both.

What's both?

74 posted on 06/28/2007 12:06:15 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: InterceptPoint

Both mutation of protooncogenes and aneuploidy are responsible for the initiation and progression of cancer.


75 posted on 06/28/2007 12:13:47 PM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
===I find it rather egomaniacal for Duesling to claim sole credit for an idea a century old and much debated for over a decade, but considering his counterfactual position on HIV I suppose he just likes being the center of attention.

Apparently, you have difficulty reading:

“the man who ‘rediscovered’ the old work on aneuploidy is controversial University of California-Berkeley researcher and National Academy of Sciences member Peter Duesberg”

76 posted on 06/28/2007 12:13:49 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: ahayes
Both mutation of protooncogenes and aneuploidy are responsible for the initiation and progression of cancer.

OK. Could be. Nothing to argue about here. Time to move on.

77 posted on 06/28/2007 12:16:33 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: GodGunsGuts

Dawrinism would hamper the war on cancer is anybody still used Darwinism for scientific research.

Darwinism has not really been the basis since the 1930’s.

Darwinism doesn’t include DNA or genetics.


78 posted on 06/28/2007 12:24:42 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: Ichneumon

Wow, lots of info. I scanned most of it but will read it in its entirety when I get home.

I received a transfusion in 1983, you can bet I and my Doctors were worried into the 90’s (they said 20 years and they’d feel safe saying I was free) about the possibility of HIV showing up (that and Hep C).

There’s so much quackery going on for medicine. A perfect example is Hulda Clark (not and MD but a Ph.D) who wrote a book called, “The Cure for all Cancers”. I wrote a response to a poster (whose name I forgot) who lived by her ‘teachings’. There’s no help for people like that. They think AIDS and Cancer are big conspiracies between MD’s and pharmaceutical companies. They seem to miss the parts where chemists and Doctor’s die of cancer as well. I guess they’re been sworn to never reveal the conspiracy...


79 posted on 06/28/2007 12:31:43 PM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Alter Kaker
==I’m sorry, I still don’t get it. What does evolution have to do with this? How would a chromosomal rearrangement refute evolution?

It doesn’t refute evolution (except in the sense that it shows that mutations almost always cause harm/devolution). But my main point in posting this article is to show that the Darwinists, who have been trying to find a cure for cancer based on mutation theory, have been leading us down the wrong path for over 30 years. It’s time for a new breed of scientists who are willing to look at the problem differently. Duesberg is one of those scientists. ID scientists would also bring a fresh perspective to the War on Cancer. For instance, rather than being hamstrung by Darwinian random mutation, IDers would not be adverse to looking for controversial cancer causes that lie outside of the neo-Darwinian paradigm (such as common mechanisms, the possibility that the body grows cancer in response to some deeper/holistic health problem, etc).

80 posted on 06/28/2007 12:41:43 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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