Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again.
Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.
Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.
Every national park has at least one gift shop - usually more - selling t-shirts, snow domes, mugs, postcards and books.
At the Grand Canyon you will find books on the canyon's history, the canyon's animals and even the canyon's deaths.
One book, Grand Canyon: A Different View, contains the following excerpt:
"Grand Canyon is not just an icon of beauty. It is a solemn witness to the mighty power of God who is not only the omnipotent creator of all things but also the avenging defender of his own holiness."
It is amazing to think a humble river was able to carve such a mighty canyon. Of course, a geologist will tell you that reflects the power of time rather than the power of the river - the canyon is millions of years old.
But Grand Canyon: A Different View presents a different perspective.
The book is compiled by Tom Vail, who has been guiding rafting trips down the Colorado River for 25 years.
He says for the first 15 years he was an evolutionist.
"In 1994 I became a Christian and started looking at the canyon as my book says, from a different view, and I started exploring the creationist model of the formation of the canyon," he said.
"What I found was all those little questions I had as an evolutionist had answers, and pretty logical answers as I looked at it."
Mr Vail's book is not some cheap pamphlet. It is a full colour coffee-table book, featuring expensive paper, sophisticated layout, spectacular photos, scientific language and lots of quotes from the Old Testament.
Not surprisingly, it is generating debate.
The gulf between creationists and mainstream scientists is as wide as the canyon itself.
The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.
The debate only fuelled sales of the book and Tom Vail says there is plenty of evidence inside the canyon to back his belief.
"We see some very large folding in the canyon where sedimentary layers, which are laid down horizontally, have been curved or carved in big bends, some of them 300 feet tall, and this is done without cracking the rock. How do you do that with hard rock?" he said.
"I'm definitely going against the tide here, but when you look at the evidence, there are major flaws in the dating methods, for example.
Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.
A multi-million dollar creation museum recently opened, at least three of the Republicans running for President do not believe in evolution and Tom Vail's rafting trips are welcoming customers from as far away as Australia.
Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.
Why should he have anything but contempt for the Christian faith when babbling idiots like you set themselves up as representatives of an entire religion? I’m just glad most Christians are complete nitwits like you.
All those sources are not Scripture.
Show me a verse in the Bible that tells me when the earth was created and when the Flood happened.
Since when did all those religious people suddenly get such credibility with you? You blow them off every chance you get and all of a sudden, they’re spot on when it suits your purpose?
The biology teacher in our local high school does much the same. He said that creation and ID come up every year so he just plans on addressing it anyway. They spend about 3- 5 days on it altogether.
Well your local biology teacher is as much of a moron as you are, then.
Try coyoteman. He seems to be the resident creation account guy. Leastwise, he’s done the most posting of them.
Do you mean the Epic of Gilgamesh? I don’t think that validates the claim that “Almost all religions talk about the flood.”
Oh wow. b&.
Complaint filed. You’re making a bad name for the rest of us.
Nice try at subject change. You were about to regale me with the problems with Carbon-14 dating, but got sidetracked somehow. What, can't you find any problems? You seemed pretty postive there were some a couple dozen posts back.
If there was a global flood, there must be evidence for it. The sources I cited provided dates for a global flood. If there is a specific date, then I can search the geological or sedimentological/archaeological/historical record and see what shows up.
If you think these sources are wrong, what do you suggest for the date for a global flood, and what is your evidence?
That one got you banned. Buh bye.
From memory, Mt St. Helens proved:
1. The melting snow caused a flash flood that carved a canyon overnight, far short of the expected millions of years.
2. Spirit Lake was filled with dead trees, that over time became water logged and began to pop upright with their uprooted trunks catching the shore, the settling ash in the water encased the trees were they ran aground in the lake bed and started the process for a petrified forest.
3. Mt St Helens deposited its own 25 ft layer of strata that scientists would never guess could have occurred over night.
Technically you’re “story” is just about the creation of
man and woman. I am not sure it would qualify as a
full creation story, but just a part. The Gilgamesh
story is a bit more complete.
We’ve been there before. Any date will do.
Still, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. The further back in time you go, the less likely evidence would have survived intact, but you knew that.
Islam is based on Judaism, and has some Christian elements
in it....Islamasists believe Jesus existed, was a great
prophet, but did not rise from the dead after his
crucifixion to complete his work of saving mankind.
They believe Moses was a great prophet also.
They believe that Muhammad was THE great prophet, and value
his words and beliefs greater than they do Jesus and/or
Moses. Why would you expect their creation account to be much
different?
Other geologic processes do not progress at the previously thought slower rate. When efforts were made to recover the Lost Squadron, the searchers thought they would only have a few inches of snow and ice to deal with. Instead it was 268 FEET of ice.
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