Racial preferences in the dating world

http://www.seacoastonline.com/ ^ | May 11, 2007 | Steve Penner

[teldon30]

One of the more delicate areas I dealt with while running a dating service for more than two decades was the issue of race, and more specifically racial stereotyping by prospective members.

Stereotyping in itself is a volatile issue, and at some point during intake interviews, I often repeated the phrase “While there is some truth to all stereotypes, there are certainly many exceptions to every single one.”

However, when one is dealing with a sample of more than 20,000 single, divorced, and widowed men and women, I feel confident and comfortable making certain statements in a column titled The Truth about Dating.

Yet I was still hesitant to write this column, until a reader sent me an article from The New York Times, in which the author, John Tierney, published a story about racial preferences in the dating world.

Moreover, the article cited a study titled Racial Preferences in Dating that documented the preferences of more than 400 participants in speed dating sessions at Columbia University. A quick reading of both the Times article and the Columbia study seemed to support my own anecdotal findings.

(Unfortunately while reading the Columbia study I was overcome by the academic verbiage that authors of such studies feel compelled to use. Do they teach “Boring Writing 101” at Ivy League institutions of higher learning? I found it impossible to read more than a few pages without getting a headache. Here is a sample sentence: “Rates of inter-racial marriages thus capture both preferences and socio-geographic segregation.” Huh?)

Anyway, here is what I found in 23 years of interviewing singles, and I will attempt to communicate in my best “non-academic” language. When we interviewed prospective members, we always asked what their preferences were in terms of meeting people of different races.

Overall, women of most races preferred to meet men of their own race. Most Caucasian women wanted only to meet Caucasian men, the exceptions being women who were more educated and well-traveled, who considered themselves somewhat “worldly.”

Of all the races, African-American women were the most insistent about wanting to meet only African-American men. But most of those women excluded black men who had recently moved to New England from Africa or the Caribbean.

The one major exception to the finding that women wanted to meet men of their own race was Asian women, a vast majority of whom stated that they strongly preferred meeting non-Asian men.

The primary explanation offered by most Asian women was that they wanted to be matched with tall men, and they insisted that practically all of the Asian men they knew were short. But when I would ask if they would be willing to meet an Asian man if he were tall, most would simply shake their head and say they would rather not.

And what about Indian women? To be honest the sample of Indian women who joined my dating service more than 23 years was too small to determine any general statements about them.

As for men, overall they were far more open to meeting women of other races. In fact, and I find this especially interesting, the race of women most in demand were, you guessed it, Asian women. Therefore, almost all of the Asian women in my dating service had a very high Dating Quotient.

When I asked men to explain their preferences for Asian women, many shrugged and admitted they were just extremely attracted to them. But I also believe that many of these men, consciously or subconsciously, wanted to meet women who fit the stereotype of the submissive “Geisha girl,” whose primary purpose is to entertain and please men.

Interestingly enough, though, most of the Asian women we interviewed could not have had personalities more opposite than that passive stereotype. Many had Ph.Ds., M.D.s, or law degrees, and were extremely assertive. (Especially when I tried in vain to persuade them to consider meeting Asian men!)

Unfortunately for African-American women, most of the African-American men who joined stated a strong preference for meeting either white or Asian women. Many expressed the identical view, “I don’t have to join a dating service to meet women of my own race.”

The two groups of men who were the most difficult to match (and therefore had the lowest DQ) were Asian men and Indian men. Like African men, this was especially true of Asian and Indian men who had grown up overseas and relocated to New England, usually to pursue careers either in computer science or medicine. In a few cases I could persuade women to meet men of different races, IF the men were totally “Americanized.”

Of course Asian men were difficult to match because, as I previously stated, the one group of women who did not want to meet men of their own race was Asian women.

As for Indian men, they were the hardest people to match of any group of men or women of any race. And, with so many Indian men moving into the Boston area for jobs in high tech, rarely a week passed without several inquiries from men from India or Pakistan.

One reason they were difficult to match is that only a handful of Indian women joined over the decades, compared to hundreds of Indian or Pakistani men. But another is that many women, even the self-described “worldly” ones, expressed the stereotypical belief that Indian men had antiquated views of women.

To some extent, these women were correct. For example, of all the men I spoke with who wanted to meet women much younger than themselves, the largest group was, in fact, Indian men. Many told me that it was quite common back “home” for men to date and marry women at least a decade younger than themselves. And they wondered why they could not do the same here … which further lowered their DQ.

So that is the story from my own anecdotal experiences. Again, I am sure there are exceptions to every statement I made in this column. On the other hand, if you want “scientific” proof of what I am stating, just Google and download a copy of Columbia University’s Racial Preferences in Dating study.

But I suggest that if you do, make sure you have a bottle of aspirin nearby.

[rabscuttle385]

That’s what my sister and I are watching right now. :P

[RebekahT]

“IMO, American women are more screwed up then the men. I say that from what I see day to day, in advertising and the media. To make my point, when was the last time you saw a movie about a guy who was trying to hurt his success with women? Never, but a move was put out a few years ago called something like “how to lose a guy in 10 days.”

In that movie, both the guy and the girl were using each other for their careers - she was doing “research” for an article for a woman’s magazine and he was trying to win a bet with his boss in order to get a certain promotion. Both were equally wrong, but the title reflects her actions more than his.

[mamelukesabre]

Go back and look at who my original post was addressed to. It wasnt’ only you. Now how about you post something that has a point.

[Rembrandt]

“You all are clueless. The reason asian women prefer white guys is so simple and plain it’s silly. It’s got nothing to do with the size of anyone’s manhood you dopes!”

---

The one who doesn’t understand is you, mame....,

The reason Asian women prefer ANYONE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY is that they really, really want to leave their own country, esp. those countries which are Communist.

You’re right; size of manhood has nothing to do with it.

The second reason is the same reason that the world’s oldest profession is the world’s oldest profession - dinero, pure and simple. I’ve seen it happen too many times; sad to watch if you like the Westerner involved.

[null and void]

Over the long term, the cost of relocating is cheaper than settling for somebody who isn't the one. If there's chemistry there, get on a plane and visit. If the chemistry catches fire, get a refund on the return ticket.

Yep. I visted her last year and we seemed to hit it off well. I hope to be going on a slightly longer visit next month.

Relocation is out of the question at this point because of my kids. One is in mid launch, and the other won't be for a few more years. I don't want to abandon him to the eeeeeeevil slime mom. (She's a liberal)

By the time he's ready, my new company should be at the place where I can sell it off.

[mamelukesabre]

"Something to point out: humans are much more closely related than most dog (or other animal) breeds."

That's possibly true, but I'd have to see proof before I believe it completely.

"The distinctions between people groups (races) are very blurry"

This is where you are getting distracted. Dogs have pedigrees and the purpose of these pedigrees is to limit mating of dogs to similar dogs. But un-pedigree dogs(mutts) fill in the spectrum between all dog breeds. It is arbitrary what the definition of a specific breed is. They were set way back when, but when they were set, it was an arbitrary thing. People don't have pedigrees. It is arbitrary how a human race, or breed, is defined. Someone set the human races at three(main types) way back when. Caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid. But why three and why are they defined as they are? Who says almond shaped eyes and prominent cheekbones and straight black hair are the traits of one 'pure' race? There are mongoloid peoples with negroid like hair. There are negroid like people with caucasoid like noses and lips. One could easily start a new race classification that has some new combination of caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid traits. If one had control over human breeding like one can with dogs, you could conceivably create numerous races just as you could create numerous breeds of dogs. I could, if I were all powerful, create a race of man based entirely on freckles. A dog breed is defined as one that breeds "true to type". what this means is when two dogs that look the same mate, the offspring look like they do. With f1 hybrids, this doesn't happen. An f1 hybrid bred to an f1 hybrid results in questionable offspring. This means they can be anything. They don't have to look like the f1 parents. You can see this in humans too. The most common examples are negroid to caucasoid crosses. When a man and woman marry and have children and they(the parents) are both first generation f1 hybrids, half negroid and half caucasoid, their children will not necessarily appear 50-50 black-white. 25% of them will appear 100%white, 25% of them will appear 100%black, and 50% of them will appear as the parents, 50-50. If I were all powerful, in time, through selective breeding, I could create a new race based on the f1 caucasoid-negroid hybrid look that breeds true to type. But once I do achieve this, all positive effects of "hybrid vigor" have vanished. Actually, hybrid vigor would have disappeared long before this is achieved. It is believed that the bonus from hybrid vigor is halved each successive generation. But these "hypothetical races" aren't really hypothetical because there are some that really do exist. There are peoples in southeast asia and the pacific islands that are mongoloid-like but with negroid hair. And these people breed true to type.

My own personal opinion is that f1 caucasoid-mongoloid hybrids are more attractive. I believe it is because of the hybrid vigor effect. The most predominant factor in human perceived attractiveness is reproductive health. This is scientific fact. It is also fact that f1 hybrids benefit from hybrid vigor. So from these facts, I deduce that in humans, hybrid vigor enhances reproductive health and thus human perceived attractiveness.

[TexasKamaAina]

So, you actually encouraged to to seek out boys of specific people groups (races)? They're your kids, but seems that the values of potential boyfriends should trump what people group to which they belong.

It had more to do with the experiences my wife and I have had as an interracial couple and the experiences my kids have had as bi-racial Americans.

[mamelukesabre]

I know what you are speaking of. I’ve seen it too. But for this discussion, I THOUGHT we were talking about asian women already here legally, already citizens.

[Kitten Festival]

I made my point. You just never read it. One more time, troll: If you insult people before you contribute your ‘better’ knowledge, you’re unlikely to convince anyone of anything. There is no point to insulting anyone you want to convince of your point of view. When you do that, you are convincing no one. Try a little civility for a change and see how you do.

[Polybius]

Ha! Don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m not prejudice against the irish. I’m just stating a fact that WAS reality. There was a time when people “aspired” to assimilate to be americans.

And your example of "assimilating to be American" was the fact that your grandmother was ashamed of her 25% Irish ancestry and wanted to be considered 100% WASP when the Irish contributed so much to the creation of the USA?

But you bring up another topic that I feel strongly about. That is this nonsense more and more americans have about “being proud of one’s ancestry”. It is kinda stupid when you get down to it. We are americans. We are a heinz 57 mixture.

You might be "Heinz 57" as far as ethnic heritage. Some of us Americans were not and are not Heinz 57 but we were and are just as much "American" as Heinz 57 or any other hamburger condiment you care to mention.

That includes the Union soldiers of the Irish Brigade who died at Gettysburg. That includes the Buffalo Soldiers that died on the Western frontier. That includes the Navajo Code Talkers that died in the Pacific. That includes the Tuskegee Airmen that died over the skies of Europe. That includes my uncle that was shedding blood for the U.S. in Vietnam in 1965 after having come here from Cuba in 1960.

You are no more "American" than any of those just because you believe that your American heritage dates from the day you were born and believe that taking into account anything that your ancestors did to form your American character is "stupid".

Promoting pride in one’s ancestry is promoting balkanization and that is dangerous.

So, I should tell my children that they should have no pride that their dead maternal Polish American grandfather fought in the Pacific in World War II?

I should tell my children that they should pay no heed that one of my ancestors commanded a frigate in the Spanish fleet that defeated the British in the capture of Pensacola during the American Revolutionary War securing the American Colonies' southern flank and helping America win it's independence?

I should tell my children that they should pay no heed that, five years after coming to the U.S. from Cuba, my uncle was a U.S. Army Lieutenant who was fighting and severely wounded at the Landing Zone X-Ray at the Battle of Ia Drang and is listed seven times in the index of We Were Soldiers Once ... And Young?

There’s nothing wrong with being aware of where you came from, but pride in what culture your great great grandparents were part of is just dumb. They are dead and gone and that culture that they were part of doesn’t exist any more ......

Wow ..... That explains why public school left-wing teachers no longer teach children to be proud of being American.

"Your dead great great grandfather came to America because it was a Land of Freedom and fought at Gettysburg with the Irish Brigade? Your grandfather fought in World War II?"

"Hey! They are dead and gone! Who gives a rat's patoot! Fogetaboutit!! "

"You have no heritage. You have no History. You are Heinz 57. Or French's Mustard. Or Tony Roma's Barbecue Sauce."

Have you ever considered that heritage is what keeps a man on a steady course and lack of heritage is why slightly over 50% of America is now drifting like a ship without a rudder?

I can take pride in being a midwesterner. I can take pride in being conservative, or the specific skill set I’ve aquired. But how can you take pride in who your long dead ancestors are who you never even met?

Because, if they did their job in nurturing your family tree, they shaped the values that you have today.

As the saying goes, "Good breeding shows."

I happen to know that my genetic composition is primarily danish, dutch and german...with some english, irish, and native american. I feel absolutely no connection to any of those cultures or nations.

So that is supposed to make you more of a "real American" than my uncle who, five years after coming to the U.S. from Cuba, was bleeding from a gaping leg wound at Landing Zone X-ray at the Battle of Ia Drang and, according to the book "We Were Soldiers Once ... And Young", was cussing up a storm in Spanish after he was wounded during that battle?

In this country, you don't inherit your station in life. You work for it. That's the american way.

Well, some of us have worked and have bled for our station in America and just because we have not turned our back on the ancestors who shaped our character, that does not mean that we are less "American" than those who believe that being "American" means having no heritage at all.

[California Patriot]

Man, has this thread degenerated from the earlier, interesting discussion of the actual topic. Let’s refocus on the relationship between race and attracting babes.

[teldon30]

I vote for more pictures...

[mamelukesabre]

"So, I should tell my children that they should have no pride that their dead maternal Polish American grandfather fought in the Pacific in World War II?"

I never said that. But there's no sensible reason for you to tell them that they should be proud of the fact that he was polish. To do THAT, would be silly...stupid even.

"Have you ever considered that heritage is what keeps a man on a steady course and lack of heritage is why slightly over 50% of America is now drifting like a ship without a rudder?"

Of course I have considered the importance of THAT kind of heritage...knowing what it took for your parents and grandparents to overcome...and learning all you can from them and their experiences. But the ethnicity of long dead ancestors is irrelevant to THAT kind of heritage.

"Because, if they did their job in nurturing your family tree, they shaped the values that you have today."

Yes they did. I'll have you know that my full blooded dane grandfather is the one that instilled in me the idea that pride in one's ancestors' ethnicity is a load of pure crap. He wouldn't speak danish and didn't try to teach his kids danish. Denmark and the danes are irrelevent in this country. He was american and made sure his kids grew up american, NOT DANISH. The more I live the more I agree with him.

[Caipirabob]

If not I really was on another planet. The sky was blue just like Earth so if I jumped the gun forgive me.

Most of my Latino friends are conservative, the religous ones are fervently conservative and all of them vote Republican. This is in SoFlo.

One of my best friends simply told me he could not reconcile Democrat policy with his Catholic beliefs. Democrats were incompatible with Christianity for him. He's from the Dominican Republic. Dated a Cuban (descent) girl who's father fled Castro. I cant' repeat what they think of Democrats. My wife yells at the TV in Spanish when she sees Reid or Pelosi on the screen and changes the channel when Hillary appears.

We have a tremendous number of Latino conservatives. Vison, when you get down here, if you come to SoFlo and you're interested in a Church, try Calvary Chapel. There are so many conservative Latinas there they overflow into the ailes. Enjoy.

We used to have more post here regularly. I miss seeing Luis Gonzalez and some of our other locals post more. They left after the "Great Shiavo Flame Wars" of 2005. The fought to the last for Terri and some of our own here were pretty hard on them. We have to be able to control our discourse on some matters. We can't agree on every single subject and it cost us some good people.

[Vision]

Never saw it, but remember the trailer. The advertising I saw sold it as some sort of story about how men are easy to get and can be thrown away in a cocky manner.

While nobody can be responsible for advertisers, they are professionals who make a living targeting markets.

[Vision]

"Great Shiavo Flame Wars"

That was a mess. Still is a mess.

Anybody escaping communism is bound to be right wing, God Bless them. Where in SoFlo are you?

[TypeZoNegative]

AMEN! I don’t mean to sound bigoted, but I make it a rule NEVER to date a black girl or a white girl that prefers to date black guys because of the anti-intellectual attitude.

I would only consider dating another black girl only if she’s educated and cultured. So far, all of those gals were taken by smart, cultured, educated white guys, so I’m stuck having jungle fever for the rest of my life.

I’m not complaining though.

[roaddog727]

To me, it’s all good.

Big hooters and pink (rhymes with hooters).

AS long as there’s mutual bonding and respect, who cares.

[sphinx]

"Stereotypes do not occur by ‘magic.’" No, they often come from bigoted parents.

Bigoted parents, bigoted friends, and bigoted mental litter from the surrounding culture are all factors, but there's more at work as well. Stereotypes often have roots in reality -- some aspect of the others' culture that rubs the wrong way. This can be picked up, exaggerated, and distorted but the underlying conflict is still there. Tom Sowell has written on this extensively and I think he's right.

This only becomes controversial when the stereotype is negative. We have many positive -- or at least benign and often humerous -- stereotypes as well. I'm sure some Asian Americans are bums with slacker kids. I've just never met any. Asian Americans are reputed to place a high emphasis on family, work, savings, and education. The stereotype certainly matches my admittedly limited experience. Not all cultures are equal and we can hardly help noticing the difference even if the PC police punish truth telling.

[antisocial]

“That was unnecessary.”

Most that have come here from Cuba and have some sort of education and know how terrible communism can be are conservative.

However, most of the 20 million or so Illegal alien invaders are from Mexico and several other latin american countries that are totally corrupt. The great majority of these folks are uneducated and will support whomever will offer them the most freebies. ie Dimocrats