Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 861-880881-900901-920 ... 2,981-2,983 next last
To: greyfoxx39

There is not tithing bill, the show you how much you have paid in in tithing and ask you if that is a full tithe, then they take your word for it.


881 posted on 05/06/2007 4:07:01 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 802 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Philip. 2:122:12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,

(Young's Literal Translation from the Greek) Notice the context: 'work out' can also be 'show forth'.

You Mormon Apologists seem to think this 'show forth' means you have to do it because Jesus won't kick in His Grace until you've made Him owe it to you through your works of 'righteousness' ... which works are of course as filthy rags when done to earn His Righteousness offered to you as a gift through faith.

First lets clear up a missconception you Trinity folks have of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!

The LDS believe in Saved by Grace remember we have 3 degree of Glory and unless you are a Son of Perdition or one who have a witness and renouced the witness which is called blaspheme against the Holy Ghost!

Matt. 12 31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mark 3 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Luke 12 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
Heb. 6 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb. 10 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

As the Philippians would have 'shown forth' the evidence of their salvation in Paul's presence, he urges them to 'show forth' the evidence of their salvation in his absence, 'lest any man (or restornu) be found boasting'.

You are assuming I boast MHGinTN?

May I remind you MHGinTN that the saints are commanded to-

Saints should be of one mind and one spirit—Every knee shall bow to Christ—Saints must work out their salvation—Paul faces martyrdom with joy. Click

As the 13th verese shows, it is God in them doing the work for His own good pleasure. If you study the scriptures in their context, you avoid many doctrinal or canon errors.

13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

I recieved that understanding in my Patriarcal Blessing.

You must never doubt your own ability to do these things. You must have confidence that our Heavenly Father will give you all the powers you need to serve Him. You must recognize that there are forces outside your self, powers of heaven that are available to you through this gospel.(the holy Spirit and the Lord angels)

The enabling power come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

These blessing from the Lord come through covenants I know the Lord is doing his part and also expects man to also to his part of the contract for it to be honored.

you should also read the verse before Phil 2
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1-And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

2-to the glory of God the Father

882 posted on 05/06/2007 4:09:47 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 872 | View Replies]

To: restornu

What happened to verse thirteen (Philippians 2:13), Resty, the one in which Paul clearly states that it is God in the Philippians doing the works?


883 posted on 05/06/2007 4:14:24 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 882 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Just an update on my son who is in the Army. Congratulations!
884 posted on 05/06/2007 4:21:24 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 796 | View Replies]

To: restornu; xzins
Philip. 2 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I'm glad you raised the question.

First of all re: Phil 2:12, is Paul giving every human some recipe for salvation? Hardly. This letter is written very specifically to a church...not generic unbelievers.

Secondly we see an example where you wrestle a verse out of a vital context in search of a prooftext. Continue reading to PHIL. 2:13: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Whose really doing the work THROUGH us? God the Holy Spirit, of which we are but a mere temple. So stop trying to claim credit and glory for the "worketh" which Paul says of is Him. (It's not very becoming when a co-worker claims credit for something you did, right? So stop. Repent. Tell the Holy Spirit you're sorry).

Thirdly, salvation = to be made whole by being rescued from something (spiritually from sin, the devil & death; physically this world). If you are totally disabled, tell me, what kind of "working out" can you do? If I was once disabled (and spiritually I was), and if I now am able to work out spiritually, then I'm exercising from a starting point where God has already healed me. Right?

All Paul is saying there: He's made you whole. He has already saved you (note how many times, for example, John talks about eternal life in the present tense..."have eternal life"--not "will have.") Now exercise that salvation with fear and trembling.

Is 62

As for Isaiah 62, read carefully. Zion is a "her" right? It doesn't say "HER" reward, right? It doesn't say "HER" work, right? It doesn't say that God has no choice but to reward the daughter of Zion as a part of "HER" reward. It's "His" reward and "His" work--it's the Lord's to give, right?

There are other verses you can pick that talk about "reward" or "crowns" that God gives to folks. But so what? The Bible talks about them, but always in the context of eternal life as a gift, right?

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

If I wanted to: I could give you an all-expense paid trip to some South Pacific island. A free, total gift. Then once there, I could give you some valuable things that you could enjoy as a type of reward that's tied to let's say, volunteer work you did.

Just because your behavior influenced me in deciding what "valuable things" to give you once you arrived in the South Pacific, doesn't mean you "earned" your way to the South Pacific.

Somehow, you would have us believe that by what great shape you are in (your ability to "work out"), you could walk on water to a South Pacific island. It doesn't work that way.

The distance to a South Pacific island minus a viable way to get there doesn't even begin to describe the distance to heaven minus a viable way to get there.

So let me give you a standard warning: "Don't try this at home."

885 posted on 05/06/2007 4:27:06 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 867 | View Replies]

To: George W. Bush
Ah, but there is one small advantage to having a Mormon president for SLC. When you send your missionaries overseas and they ask you what a Mormon is or who is a Mormon, you would be able to point at the U.S. president, the most powerful individual in the world and the most famous international figure globally.

You know, honestly this had never occured to me.
I may have to switch back from supporting Fred Thompson /Sarc. (Go Fred)
886 posted on 05/06/2007 4:41:28 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 871 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

“I now do good works for others because I love God and I love them. If it earns me nothing other that shear joy and the glory of God it is more than enough!”

That’s excellent.

So do I, as best I can.

Why am I condemned for it?


887 posted on 05/06/2007 4:43:22 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 856 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

could you please post the Young’s transalation of James Chapter 2? I am curious to see how he rendered that.


888 posted on 05/06/2007 4:43:35 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 872 | View Replies]

To: restornu; MHGinTN
don’t you believe in pargraphs?

Is it required to be a Mormon?

Wow! you lear something every day! /Humor
889 posted on 05/06/2007 4:45:18 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 875 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
"The most high-profile incident reflecting anti-Mormon sentiment towards Romney occurred on February 17, during Romney's campaign swing through The Villages, a Florida retirement community described by the Orlando Sentinel as a "hotbed of Republicanism." In a question-and-answer session with Romney, a Villages resident told the former governor: "You, sir, you're a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You're a Mormon."

Snipped from:
890 posted on 05/06/2007 4:46:50 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 853 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser

Placemarker!


891 posted on 05/06/2007 4:48:59 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 890 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

“This kind of grace, then, would never kick in til you’ve done all you can do. Who qualifies? Point out ONE person besides Jesus Christ who can say He’s done everything He could do. (By our sins of omission alone, we all flunk)”

That’s why there’s repentance. We all need it.


892 posted on 05/06/2007 4:49:09 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 861 | View Replies]

To: George W. Bush
I just thought I'd point out the one benefit that a Romney presidency might bring to Salt Lake's proselytization efforts, particularly overseas. The advantage is quite minor. I doubt the Methodists have benefited much from Bush. I don't think it has made much difference to us Baptists to have had the names Carter and Clinton to bandy about (and those two were an embarassment to us domestically anyway). Still, it probably doesn't hurt. Well, unless your president happens to start bombing their country.

Had the Olympics been in say, Tennessee [isn't that home of the Southern Baptists?] instead of Salt Lake City, I'm sure the So. Baptists would have had a formidable Olympic presence. But it wouldn't quite compare to the SLC spin machine it had going for the SLC Olympics put forth by the LDS church headquarters.

Secondly, ya gotta remember that the LDS church only had about 300 missionaries mid-20th century and has been fairly culturally isolated in the West until this last generation coming forth. That means it has been held in more obscurity than mainline and evangelical Christian denominations.

LDS would have more to benefit from in shedding this than say, a mainline or evangelical president.

893 posted on 05/06/2007 4:50:02 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 871 | View Replies]

To: tantiboh
That’s why there’s repentance. We all need it.

Okay, we all need repentance. But the Book of Mormon says that ya don't get grace til you've done all you can do.

I mean I can't even say I've done everything I could do as a parent, let alone as a child of God!

Do you really think you're going to come to a point where you can look with 100% satisfaction at your spiritual and neighborly track record and say, "Yup! I've done all I can do. Go ahead, Lord, open the grace faucet."

894 posted on 05/06/2007 4:53:11 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 892 | View Replies]

To: George W. Bush

“And that is good enough. Barring any clear agenda by him to promote Mormonism in office (not something he did as governor), his religion is not a factor in whether I will ultimately support him.

It is his reliability on adhering to and implementing the conservative party platform that is the standard. He has neither passed that test fully nor failed it yet. He is an attractive candidate and his merits as a candidate warrant a fair hearing.”

I agree. Frankly, if he were to display a clear agenda to promote Mormonism while in office, I would be first in line to want him impeached. That’s a clear violation of the separation of Church and State; it would certainly fall within my view of the scope of High Crimes were he to purposefully violate the Constitution like that.

Still, it’s an academic debate; I just can’t see it happening.


895 posted on 05/06/2007 4:54:27 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 868 | View Replies]

To: George W. Bush

That is true; as uncomfortable as it may be for little ol’ me to be part of a group that is about to go under such a microscope, it is fantastic publicity. For many, it’s their first real encounter with the LDS Church. Those who are looking for what we have to offer will be better able to find it.


896 posted on 05/06/2007 4:57:47 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 871 | View Replies]

To: tantiboh

Bump this thread


897 posted on 05/06/2007 4:59:04 PM PDT by lager (Lager finally posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 896 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Were you guys told how chosen you were in the pre-existence because you were “valiant.” If that doesn’t instill false pride in a child, I don’t know what does.

Excellent point, and one I hadn't considered before.

Likewise, how DOES an LDS believer who holds those past general authorities in high esteem--those who talked about black skin as a curse related to the pre-existence--anyway, how DOES a Mormon get past that?

Isn't a "non-valiant" pre-existent vantage point always going to link the thought that "Oh, he's of another color. He was neutral. He wasn't valiant?"

I mean it sounds to me like some LDS general authorities have forever either tainted or even ruined that word, because it can never be separated from a form of racism.

898 posted on 05/06/2007 5:00:11 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 852 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
What happened to verse thirteen (Philippians 2:13), Resty, the one in which Paul clearly states that it is God in the Philippians doing the works?

If you really read my post you would have understood that the LDS believe in grace.

As the 13th verese shows, it is God in them doing the work for His own good pleasure. If you study the scriptures in their context, you avoid many doctrinal or canon errors.

13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

I recieved that understanding in my Patriarcal Blessing.

You must never doubt your own ability to do these things. You must have confidence that our Heavenly Father will give you all the powers you need to serve Him. You must recognize that there are forces outside your self, powers of heaven that are available to you through this gospel.(the holy Spirit and the Lord angels)

The enabling power come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

These blessing from the Lord come through covenants I know the Lord is doing his part and also expects man to also to his part of the contract for it to be honored.

899 posted on 05/06/2007 5:06:15 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 883 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; restornu; xzins

I don’t mean to offend, and I don’t want a fight; but there have been many instances where someone who is a member of the LDS Church has posted an equally cogent, complete, and referenced post as yours, which reaches the conclusion that faith and works go hand in hand, and those who disagree with use have simply dismissed it as “spin,” “twisting scripture to suit your needs,” and “dodging the issue.”

The fact is, there are verses on this topic in the Bible that are contradictory. It does no good to beat each other over the head with them.

I suggest we all simply realize that the other side has valid points, and logical reasons for reaching their conclusion. Can we agree to disagree on the faith v. works issue?

If you exercise faith and are saved by faith, fine.
If I exercise faith and works and am saved by faith, fine. The worst thing that happens is I waste some effort. It shouldn’t matter to you; it’s my effort to waste.


900 posted on 05/06/2007 5:08:12 PM PDT by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 885 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 861-880881-900901-920 ... 2,981-2,983 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson