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To: restornu; xzins
Philip. 2 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I'm glad you raised the question.

First of all re: Phil 2:12, is Paul giving every human some recipe for salvation? Hardly. This letter is written very specifically to a church...not generic unbelievers.

Secondly we see an example where you wrestle a verse out of a vital context in search of a prooftext. Continue reading to PHIL. 2:13: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Whose really doing the work THROUGH us? God the Holy Spirit, of which we are but a mere temple. So stop trying to claim credit and glory for the "worketh" which Paul says of is Him. (It's not very becoming when a co-worker claims credit for something you did, right? So stop. Repent. Tell the Holy Spirit you're sorry).

Thirdly, salvation = to be made whole by being rescued from something (spiritually from sin, the devil & death; physically this world). If you are totally disabled, tell me, what kind of "working out" can you do? If I was once disabled (and spiritually I was), and if I now am able to work out spiritually, then I'm exercising from a starting point where God has already healed me. Right?

All Paul is saying there: He's made you whole. He has already saved you (note how many times, for example, John talks about eternal life in the present tense..."have eternal life"--not "will have.") Now exercise that salvation with fear and trembling.

Is 62

As for Isaiah 62, read carefully. Zion is a "her" right? It doesn't say "HER" reward, right? It doesn't say "HER" work, right? It doesn't say that God has no choice but to reward the daughter of Zion as a part of "HER" reward. It's "His" reward and "His" work--it's the Lord's to give, right?

There are other verses you can pick that talk about "reward" or "crowns" that God gives to folks. But so what? The Bible talks about them, but always in the context of eternal life as a gift, right?

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

If I wanted to: I could give you an all-expense paid trip to some South Pacific island. A free, total gift. Then once there, I could give you some valuable things that you could enjoy as a type of reward that's tied to let's say, volunteer work you did.

Just because your behavior influenced me in deciding what "valuable things" to give you once you arrived in the South Pacific, doesn't mean you "earned" your way to the South Pacific.

Somehow, you would have us believe that by what great shape you are in (your ability to "work out"), you could walk on water to a South Pacific island. It doesn't work that way.

The distance to a South Pacific island minus a viable way to get there doesn't even begin to describe the distance to heaven minus a viable way to get there.

So let me give you a standard warning: "Don't try this at home."

885 posted on 05/06/2007 4:27:06 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; restornu; xzins

I don’t mean to offend, and I don’t want a fight; but there have been many instances where someone who is a member of the LDS Church has posted an equally cogent, complete, and referenced post as yours, which reaches the conclusion that faith and works go hand in hand, and those who disagree with use have simply dismissed it as “spin,” “twisting scripture to suit your needs,” and “dodging the issue.”

The fact is, there are verses on this topic in the Bible that are contradictory. It does no good to beat each other over the head with them.

I suggest we all simply realize that the other side has valid points, and logical reasons for reaching their conclusion. Can we agree to disagree on the faith v. works issue?

If you exercise faith and are saved by faith, fine.
If I exercise faith and works and am saved by faith, fine. The worst thing that happens is I waste some effort. It shouldn’t matter to you; it’s my effort to waste.


900 posted on 05/06/2007 5:08:12 PM PDT by tantiboh
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