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President's salute not a good idea [Progressives find something else wrong, Reagan did it]
Capital Times ^ | 3-27-07 | Dave Zweifel

Posted on 03/27/2007 4:43:39 PM PDT by SJackson

It raised eyebrows back in 1981 when new President Ronald Reagan began returning the military salutes of the servicemen standing guard when he'd disembark from Air Force One or from Marine 1, the helicopter that would deliver him to the White House lawn.

No presidents before had returned those salutes, not even Dwight D. Eisenhower, who just seven years before he took office had been a five-star Army general. Reagan, who had held the rank of captain in the Army Air Corps during World War II, changed all that and every president since, including our present one, renders the salute.

Although it was far from the biggest issue of the day, many commentators did question the practice at the time, pointing out that while, yes, the president was commander in chief of the military, he wasn't a military person himself and by saluting was insinuating that he was.

I hadn't heard much about that issue since, but noted author Garry Wills, a professor emeritus of history at Northwestern University, brought it up again in an op-ed column he wrote for the New York Times earlier this year.

"We hear constantly now about 'our commander in chief.' The word has become a synonym for 'president.' It is said we 'elected a commander in chief.' It is asked whether this or that candidate is 'worthy to be our commander in chief.'

"But the president is not our commander in chief. He certainly is not mine. I am not in the Army," Wills wrote.

Wills recalled how he cringed back in 1973 when Richard Nixon's chief of staff, Al Haig, tried to justify Nixon's "Saturday Night Massacre" firings because the attorney general and deputy attorney general had refused an order from their "commander in chief."

"President Nixon was not (Elliot Richardson's or William Ruckelshaus') commander in chief," he commented. "The president is not the commander in chief of civilians. He is not even the commander in chief of National Guard troops unless and until they are federalized."

It all may seem like small potatoes, but Wills and others see that attitude and the extension of the salutes as the increasing militarization of U.S. politics.

"The citizenry at large is now thought of as under military discipline," Wills wrote. "The executive branch takes actions in secret, unaccountable to the electorate, to hides its moves from the enemy and protect national secrets."

The bottom line, Wills said, is that "the representative is accountable to citizens. Soldiers are accountable to their officer. The dynamics are different, and to blend them is to undermine the basic principles of our Constitution."


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: marines; usmc
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To: Lancey Howard; SJackson
What's a "progressive"?

A dishonest and cowardly socialist.

61 posted on 03/27/2007 6:09:17 PM PDT by tarheelswamprat (So what if I'm not rich? So what if I'm not one of the beautiful people? At least I'm not smart...)
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To: SJackson

Check your Constitution. The president is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. He may be a civilian, but he's at the top of the military chain of command. He's directly in authority over everyone serving in the military. It is an unusual position for a civilian to hold, but there you have it.

I am in favor of the president saluting. It may be unusual for a man who is not in the military to salute; it is also, in my humble opinion, odd for a man to be saluted and yet unable to return that salute. It all comes back again to our Founders' decision to put a civilian over the military.


62 posted on 03/27/2007 6:13:58 PM PDT by Irish Rose (Will work for chocolate.)
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To: SJackson

Well why is lefty Wills complaining. He is an avid gun grabber. I mean he thinks ONLY the military and police should own firearms. Where does his lefty brain think that will lead. No civilian ownership but only STATE ownership. Now he grips about a salute.


63 posted on 03/27/2007 6:17:51 PM PDT by therut
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To: SJackson
Whiny ass libs are against anything that shows any sign of respect for the military.
64 posted on 03/27/2007 6:18:29 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Heus, hic nos omnes in agmine sunt! Deo volente rivoque non adsurgente)
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To: SJackson

Wills is really quite boring on this subject.

Boy scouts salute. Sea Scouts salute. Girl Scouts salute.

Martial Arts practioners bow.

It is called "returning respect".


65 posted on 03/27/2007 6:18:40 PM PDT by Prost1 (Fair and Unbiased as always!)
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To: SJackson
I never met a President, but my recollection is that when I'm in uniform any senior officer, even if civilian clothing, is due the respect of a salute.


66 posted on 03/27/2007 7:07:33 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (n)
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To: SkyPilot

Dang! Even Shirley Temple in "Littlr Miss Whatever" Saluted better than that. Can't she find a low level WAC drill instructor to teach her?


67 posted on 03/27/2007 7:27:59 PM PDT by rock58seg (Conservative American skeptics: The worlds last bastion of sanity.)
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To: SJackson

Wills is just pissed that the US (Reagan) won the cold war. Such a shame his beloved comrades from the Soviet Union went down the tubes thanks to the great Ronald Wilson Reagan.


68 posted on 03/27/2007 7:29:01 PM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("Salvation is not free")
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To: SJackson
Leadership speaks for itself.

Thanks for the article, and yes, yes it does.

69 posted on 03/27/2007 7:30:33 PM PDT by Ace's Dad ("There are more important things: Friendship, Bravery...")
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To: SJackson

I salute officers. If an officer fails to return my salute I will respectfully point out that I have shown proper military courtesy and ask the officer to return the courtesy.

Maybe the problem is that President Reagan had good manners.


70 posted on 03/27/2007 7:36:33 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: SJackson

71 posted on 03/27/2007 7:36:59 PM PDT by PackerBronco
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To: Lancey Howard
What's a "progressive"?

A liberal who recognizes that the general populace is onto his B.S. and wants to hide, while still holding onto his stupid prejudices.

72 posted on 03/27/2007 7:44:30 PM PDT by rock58seg (Conservative American skeptics: The worlds last bastion of sanity.)
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To: SJackson

To all DIMWITS - I'll speak slowly so you can follow along .. The President .. is .. the .. COMMANDER .. IN .. CHIEF! He .. has .. a .. right .. to .. RETURN .. his .. officer's .. SALUTE.

I'm so sick of these people - why do they have to make life such HELL ..??


73 posted on 03/27/2007 7:49:03 PM PDT by CyberAnt ("... first time in history the U.S. House has attempted to surrender via C-SPAN TV ...")
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To: SkyPilot

Your weak fingered attempts to salute make me want to puke!

74 posted on 03/27/2007 8:05:24 PM PDT by Darth Republican
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To: SJackson
The President may salute or not as he or she pleases. So may any civilian should he or she choose to do so. There's nothing magical or sacrosanct about the gesture. For veterans it's almost a conditioned reflex, and for some of us who wish to be punctilious about it the old military rules tend to be hard to break. Most Navy or ex-Navy personnel find it difficult to salute without a cover. Army or ex-Army personnel do not. And there's always the hand or cap over the heart if there's any doubt in the matter.

There is very definitely a Hillary issue here - Camille Paglia wrote a column around it, the gist of which is that she's taking saluting lessons because she's a woman who wants to take a man's route to power (yes, I know, a familiar and tedious feminist train of thought) and hence will ape men's gestures to do so. Hatshepsut wore a fake beard. For some progressive commentators this passes for profundity.

75 posted on 03/27/2007 8:09:30 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: keepitreal

Just the thought of her saluting makes me gag~~~


76 posted on 03/27/2007 8:12:05 PM PDT by jaycee (Just looking for a tagline)
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To: SJackson

I would love to see Ronald Reagan salute anything one more time. I miss him.

I never fail to salute former President Clinton when I see him on the TV---with only one finger. SAAAA-Loot!


77 posted on 03/27/2007 8:20:24 PM PDT by exit82 (2008 Dem Campaign Slogan: "Vote Democrat-Hate America First!")
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To: SJackson

The President is the Commander in Chief. He is in the Chain of Command. Hell, he's at the top of the chain of command. So if you don't salute him, who do you salute. And if he's courteous enough to return the salute, Bully!


78 posted on 03/27/2007 8:26:13 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Squawk 8888

Yeah, but in Canada and Britain, the C in C is the Queen, not the PM, if I'm correct.They salute her, don't they?


79 posted on 03/27/2007 8:27:45 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: cubreporter
The bottom line, Wills said, is that "the representative is accountable to citizens. Soldiers are accountable to their officer. The dynamics are different, and to blend them is to undermine the basic principles of our Constitution."

Gary Wills always has to find SOMETHING to b*tch about when it comes to President Bush. If this all he has, it's pretty lame.

80 posted on 03/27/2007 8:37:17 PM PDT by SuziQ
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