Baptist: Giuliani won't get our votes

News and Observer ^ | 3/22/07 | Yonat Shimron

[pissant]

A top leader in the Southern Baptist Convention predicted that former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani would not succeed in winning the votes of Southern Baptists if he were to become the Republican nominee for president in 2008.

In brief comments after a chapel service at the North Carolina legislature on Wednesday, Richard Land, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said former U.S. House speaker Newt Gingrich would likely fail for the same reason.

"Three is one marriage too many for them," said Land, referring to the 16.4 million members of the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant group. Both Giuliani and Gingrich have been married three times.

A friend and adviser to President Bush, Land keeps close watch on politics as head of the commission, which studies moral, social, and religious liberty issues for the convention.

Though Southern Baptists are independent and do not necessarily follow his counsel, Land said three others who have already entered the presidential fray were more likely to win support among Southern Baptists. Those three are Sam Brownback, a Republican Senator from Kansas, Michael Huckabee, the former Republican governor of Arkansas, and Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California.

As for Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, who is a Mormon, Land didn't rule him out. But, he said, the Republican hopeful has to convince the American people that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints won't dictate his policy. Land said he met with Romney recently and told him: "That's not a hill that can't be climbed. But you're going to have to climb it."

Finally, Land said he sensed that U.S. Senator John McCain was perceived as a wild card.

"People are uncomfortable with his predictability," said Land. "They tell me, 'We don't know how he's going to come down on the issues.'"

[HitmanLV]

People change, as difficult as it is for a lot of folks on FR to absorb. A couple can be happily married and then something happens that disrupts it. It happens, what else is there to say?

[dmw]

So, what do you suggest? Vote for a liberal republican and get "democrat light"?

Who are you supporting?

[pissant]

They are still vastly outnumbered, so no victory, just an annoyance. And if they would argue on the merits and explain why they are willing to support the guy that'd be one thing, but it's "do you want Hillary" or "he's the leader of the polls, so don't try to undercut him" stuff that gets old.

[Terriergal]

I love it when people defend by saying "he has not been charged with any crime" or "there is no evidence of that"...

Well, technically... what else would a person say, if there was no evidence? That there is? I suppose if you said "No, I did not" that might sound better, but...

(frankly I'm not thrilled about anyone they're talking about out there)

[Terriergal]

"There goes the alky vote. ",P>??????????

I must be slow....I'm missing the point in your post, I guess.

Whoosh right over my head too.

[WalterSkinner]

..Dr. Land spoke at my church several years ago

His position in the SBC is the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission--which does make public statements related to these kinds of issues--he is a good and reasonable man...

ERLC Website

[Responsibility2nd]

This poem just hit my e-mail inbox.

Cute.

Some Former Backsliders Try to Please the Christian Right
Calvin Trillin

Although he mortified himself, it's true,
By showing up at Falwell's Wack Job U,
And says that every effort should be made
To guarantee reversing Roe v. Wade,
The Christian right's big mullahs make it plain
They're still not comfortable with John McCain.

And Giuliani's heel is like Achilles';
Revolving fillies give the right the willies.
His other heel is pretty much the same,
Since bashing gays was never Rudy's game.
But now he hates abortion. From the start,
He was, he says, opposed--deep in his heart.

Mitt Romney's saying now he should have known
A stem cell's just a human, not quite grown.
Gay marriage, which he used to think was good,
Is now the sort of awful thing that should
Be banned by an amendment he'd get passed
To rid us of this evil plague at last.

from http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070319/trillin

[Terriergal]

maybe we're not up on the latest sterotypes.

[ladyinred]

LOL! I hear you. This is silly.

[traditional1]

"Show me a article from a mainstream publication or a serious conservative one (lib blogs don't count) that accuse Hunter of ANY wrongdoing."

Okay:

USA Today By Matt Kelley and Jim Drinkard

11-29-2005

"Contributions to chairmen

Since 1994, Wilkes and ADCS gave $40,700 in campaign contributions to Rep. Duncan Hunter, a San Diego Republican who now chairs the House Armed Services Committee. Hunter has acknowledged that he joined with Cunningham in 1999 to contact Pentagon officials who reversed a decision and gave ADCS one of its first big contracts, for nearly $10 million. Hunter's spokesman, Joe Kasper, said the congressman was unavailable for comment Tuesday."

[Terriergal]

Ummm, excuse me, haven't you heard already that the evangelicals are committed to voting for Rudy?

I sure hope not. Where did you read that? (seriously)

[sarasmom]

That whole "judge not, lest yee also be judged" was meant as an admonition to the fervently and piously self righteous, a reminder that only God is capable of, and reserves the sole right to, judge an individuals immortal soul.

People are perfectly free, and are actually required, to otherwise judge the actions, intent and statements of other living people in their lives and society.
God is not an anarchist.
I offer up the 10 Commandments as proof of the above statement.


You may not like certain people or their religious beliefs, and you are certainly free in the USA to bash them.

But bashing Christians because they are not secular libertines and/or anarchists is illogical.

[HitmanLV]

Right now, I like Rudy. The electorate is clearly alienated from conservatives and isn't going to be accepting a strong conservative in the next two years. A GOP nominee who wins over some independents that the GOP lost in 2006 is essential to victory in 2008. I think Rudy is in the best position to do that (and would benefit greatly from a southern social conservative vp), and to a lesser extent, Romney may be able to do it.

I don't think anybody else in the current field has what it takes to win in 2008. Social conservatives are losing ground on many fronts - California can't pass a parental notification law for minors seeking abortions, for example. I'll take a guy like Rudy who gives me 50% of my agenda over a Hilly who gives me 10% of my agenda any day of the week.

Folks should also note that the GOP winning back the House isn't happening anytime soon. The electorate rejected the GOP in 2006 and may be angling to do it again in 2008. People who expect a GOP House in 2008 is in fantasyland.

[zarf]

Is the Southern Baptist convention out of sexual therapy yet?

[WalterSkinner]

I guess they are rock stars in the evangelical movement

..no Hitman-- the "rock stars" are usually the people found owning 10 Rolls Royces funded by elderly folk's SS checks

Dr. Land is no such person--he simply reflects the position of the leadership of this large denomination...

[dmw]

"Obsessing over one candidate this early on......just plain weird."

Have you delivered this message to the Rudybots who have posted dozens of pro-Rudy articles here daily? Obsession definitely describes these folks. Do you consider this "weird" too, or is it just those who are anti-Rudy?

[Terriergal]

Hillary means nothing right now. She will never again see the oval office.

I'm sure she's dying to decorate the White House Christmas tree again. Complete with gingerbread.. men with odd body piercings.

[Artemis Webb]

"BTW: Giuliani is as Catholic as Kerry and Mussolini. He's the poster boy for situational ethics."

I think if you don't like Giuliani's "ethics" or moral code or number of marriages or if he bets on horses at the track that's ok.

But saying someone isn't Catholic or whatever their faith is is not yours to say. If he and the Catholic Church says he's a Catholic then he's a Catholic.

[Terriergal]

..there are always some Tony Campolo types who will support any leftist cause... Campolo BTW was Clinton's "spiritual adviser" during the Impeachment...

You got that right. My ex denomination loves him and Jim Wallis. So avoid it everyone who's looking for a church:

The Evangelical Covenant Church

Our ex denomination's president Glenn Palmberg and Jim Wallis AND Campolo all sit on the board of Call to Renewal, sister organization to Jim Wallis's Sojourners.

[PhoenixFire]

This guy probably wouldn't vote for Thomas Jefferson or George Washington either. I couldn't care less what he thinks.