Posted on 10/07/2006 1:19:17 PM PDT by NYer
Dozens of Amish neighbors came out Saturday to mourn the quiet milkman who killed five of their young girls and wounded five more in a brief, unfathomable rampage.
Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, was buried in his wife's family plot behind a small Methodist church, a few miles from the one-room schoolhouse he stormed Monday.
His wife, Marie, and their three small children looked on as Roberts was buried beside the pink, heart-shaped grave of the infant daughter whose death nine years ago apparently haunted him.
About half of perhaps 75 mourners on hand were Amish.
"It's the love, the forgiveness, the heartfelt forgiveness they have toward the family. I broke down and cried seeing it displayed," said Bruce Porter, a fire department chaplain from Morrison, Colo., who had come to Pennsylvania to offer what help he could and attended the burial. He said Marie Roberts was also touched.
"She was absolutely deeply moved, by just the love shown," Porter said.
Leaders of the local Amish community were gathering Saturday afternoon at a firehouse to decide the future of the schoolhouse, and of the school year itself.
The prevailing wisdom suggested a new school would be built.
"There will definitely be a new school built, but not on that property," said Mike Hart, a spokesman for the Bart Fire Company in Georgetown.
Roberts stormed the West Nickel Mines Amish School on Monday, releasing the 15 boys and four adults before tying up and shooting the 10 girls. Roberts, who had come armed with a shotgun, a handgun and a stun gun, then killed himself.
Roberts' suicide notes and last calls with his wife reveal a man tormented by memories — as yet unsubstantiated — of molesting two young relatives 20 years ago. He said he was also angry at God for the Nov. 14, 1997, death of the couple's first child, a girl named Elise Victoria who lived for just 20 minutes.
Hart is one of two non-Amish community members serving on a 10-member board that will decide how to distribute donations that have come in following the global news coverage. One stranger walked into the firehouse Saturday morning and dropped a $100 bill in the collection jar.
The condolences flowing into the Bart Post Office filled three large cartons on Saturday — two for the Amish children and one for the Roberts clan.
"(It's) envelopes, packages, food and a lot of cards," clerk Helena Salerno said.
More than $500,000 has been pledged, some of which is expected to cover medical costs for the five surviving girls. They remain hospitalized, and one is said to be in grave condition.
As the Sabbath Day approached, close friends expected to spend Sunday paying visits to the victims' families.
The funerals for the five slain girls — Marian Fisher, 13; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Naomi Rose Ebersol, 7, and sisters Mary Liz Miller, 8, and Lena Miller, 7 — were held Thursday and Friday.
One Amish woman, an aunt to the Miller girls, set out Saturday to retrieve some of the flowers dropped near the school and bring them to the families.
She was traveling on an Amish scooter and tried to balance two potted plants before going home and returning for the task with a child's small wagon.
The massacre sent out images to the world not only of the violence, but also of a little-known community that chooses to live an insular, agrarian way of life, shunning cars, electricity and other modern conveniences.
By Saturday, the hordes of satellite trucks and stand-up reporters had mostly left the country roads, and a semblance of routine returned. Early in the morning, Amish farmers hauled farm equipment past the boarded-up school.
"It was just getting to be too much," said Jane Kreider, a 48-year-old teacher's aide in Georgetown. "It was just, 'Get out of dodge, get out of our town and we'll pull together.'"
People have got a seriously messed up idea of the doctrine of Forgiveness of late and quite frankly it's beginning to piss me off.
Forgiveness is worthless without repentance. The Bible is full of references to it. I'm not even a real serious Christian and a 15 minute Google search proves that.
But according to some folks Jesus just walked around forgiving people and expecting nothing. All those sinners were free to keep on sinning without the slightest bit of repentance.
Talk about missing the entire point.
Now I've actually got someone saying that Scripture is right in one place, but wrong in another. It's amazing.
L
Not even close.
You're right. Sorry. I got caught up in a silly dispute that amounts to nothing.
Apologies.
Then why didn't He say that?
Still, I agree that those who would be forgiven for their sins by God must repent
Thank you Mr. Skooz for finally getting my point.
Repentance is essential to salvation. No question.
That's what I've been trying to say all along. These poor parents can 'forgive' this monster till the cows come home. I just wish people wouldn't spout this claptrap that it's the 'biblical' thing to do.
It isn't.
But, if we choose to wait until someone who has wronged us realizes their evil ways and asks our forgiveness before we forgive, we waste an awful lot of time and needless grief.
Then why did Luke say what he said in Chapter 17?
L
That's not a biblical concept. We are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, by the grace of the Lord, not by the act of confessing every sin that needs forgiveness. If you die not having confessed every single sin, if you have placed your faith in Jesus, He will welcome you into heaven.
In this case, I do not think it applies to him. It wasn't one last sin, it was a week of planning and doing.
You and me both but it's been bugging me for many, many years. A few months ago at mass, the priest discussed forgiveness the entire sermon, without mentioning repentance an reparations. I commented to the woman sitting beside me and told her I was going to talk to father about it. She agreed with me and at the end of mass wished me well, and said it was a pleasure sitting beside me.
I spoke with Father as respectfully and calmly as possible, and when I got home another family member called him and discussed it with him. Father claimed to see the point, but we'll see.
I am tired of society further burdening those who have been burdened by the harm of serious wrongdoing, with forgiveness without sincere apology and reparation. This idea that the one who suffers from the harm is the one who also must repair the damage and/or the damaged relationship has gotten VERY old.
OK, I forgive you for bringing us back to the topic. I know, you didn't ask for my forgiveness, and I've no way to know if you're truly sorry for putting us back OT...but I forgive you anyway. :) (But remember, it's a Catholic forgiveness...take it for what it's worth!)
[the above was an attempt at humor!)
It's not only getting old it's downright dangerous.
Now I'm awed by the Amish and their poise and grace in a horrible situation but this idea that their forgiving this monster is Christian somehow is simply false.
I mean using that logic the next whack-job can kill a kid a week and be 'forgiven' somehow without ever once acknowledging that he (the killer) has done a monstrous evil or even that he's somehow sorry.
My brothers father-in-law is a Catholic priest and I asked him about this once. He agreed with me. There can be no forgiveness without serious repentance.
Anything else is just 'happy Jesus everythings ok' BS.
L
"I've seen some truly magnificent cathedrals in Europe, but nothing as inspiring as what these simple folks have displayed."
Amen to that. Watching their faith in action is one of the most humbling things I've ever seen. My respect for them grows daily.
I appreciate your wise and thoughtful words, just as I admire and appreciate the Amish way of life. Just think, no spin doctors, ever in your house via TV...
I bid you a good night.
L
I didn't watch.
Just beautiful! You are a most gifted artist. Charcoal? Thank you for posting your artwork to this thread.
"Pulling Gramma Rank......this thread is an embarrasement to these children, their families and the grief they all feel. Posters arguing over forgiving one another...."
Excellent point! I agree.
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