Posted on 09/17/2006 8:03:05 AM PDT by Principled
A Battlefield for Tax Reform
There are a few significant battlefields in the war for tax reform. One of them is Free Republic. What makes the Free Republic battlefield significant is that the debate is at the cutting edge. The debate on Free Republic is the most current and most knowledgeable. It is a year ahead of other significant battlefields (radio talk shows, political town-hall meetings, conversations among neighbors and coworkers.)
The trend on Free Republic with respect to tax reform is going to show up in the real world. Free Republic is a tiny segment of the world, albeit a more educated, more politically motivated, more affluent segment than most. Perhaps those are a few of the reasons that Free Republic predicts what will happen in the real world – the world of radio, newspapers, network television, and most importantly - elections.
The choices are
Keep the status quo and continue with our graduated income tax
Eliminate the income tax and implement a flat income tax (although this option has negligible support)
Eliminate the income tax and implement a national sales tax
There are no other options. We are going to have taxes. The only choice is deciding the best way to have them.
Whichever choice you prefer, one thing is clear. The opponents of tax reform on Free Republic will stop at nothing to protect the status quo. Here’s what’s happening on Free Republic (remember it’s a predictor of what will happen in the real world.)
Opponents of reform randomly select perceived problems, however insignificant, and say that’s the reason this reform cannot work. For example, attackers of HR 25 (the “Fair Tax”) have alternately said the rate is too high and then the rate is too low. Whatever seems to get traction is what they stick with. Is it no wonder the perception is that these anti-reformers are not being honest with the reason(s) they oppose the reform. This is why so many question the motives of the anti-reformers. What are they hiding?
The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them (what does this predict about the real world?)
An anti-reformer may be taking advantage of the positions he he was entrusted with by the site (modertor). By taking sides in threads, berating and belittling pro-nrst posters, by deleting threads, by locking threads, and by moving threads from news/ACTIVISM to “Bloggers and Personal” and to “Smokey Backroom”, the mod(s) in question are taking away from the greatest site on the internet. Sometimes, threads are moved to bloggers and then moved to SBR or vica versa.
Pro-nrst posters are suspended for things that don’t make sense. Anti nrst posters are not suspended for things that should require it - comes to mind the picture of a dog copulating with a pig with the comment “screw you pigdog”… “I found a picture of your parents”. Noteworthy is that the poster of said graphic and phrase were not suspended but rather the recipient of it was suspended for complaining about it.
What does this predict about the real world?
Suffice to say that the debate about tax reform is won by the reformers. The proof is that when educated about the three reform options, the general public chooses the nrst over 70% of the time.
The only question is whether the dishonesty of the anti-reformers will slow the progress of reform in the real world. This is NOT to say that all anti reformers are dishonest - but it is the dishonest ones who are tainting the others.
The good thing about the debate is that the nrst is the most thoroughly investigated alternative - each and every point is debated in complete detail. Problems have been identified and some changes have been made. That's a good thing. And as debate continues, the level of knowledge of any lurkers continues. As I said, I predict over 70% will choose the nrst.
How is it inflammatory to you YN?How about the term "anti-reformers." or "The opponents of tax reform on Free Republic will stop at nothing to protect the status quo." or maybe "Is it no wonder the perception is that these anti-reformers are not being honest with the reason(s) they oppose the reform." or how about "What are they hiding?" although it could be "The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them" but then again, it might be "The only question is whether the dishonesty of the anti-reformers will slow the progress of reform in the real world."
Skeptical people i enjoy. I learn from them - and the hope is we learn from each other. Flame wars prevent that. That's your goal.
And what't the conspiracy now? AG is groanup and and we have a talking points memo and a private jet too? lol
Truth hurts so close to home.
Truth hurts so close to home.I so glad you "have no interest in flame wars."
To: Principled
Lose that tagline and knock off the personal attacks. Thank you.
I would also be happy to eliminate personal attacks - and I expect others to do so also.
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Principled had four or five of his offensive posts removed by the moderator in this exchange and it appeared to be over.
Then, less than a week later, out of the blue with no posts taking place in that time either from RobFromGa to Principled, or vce versa, Principled picks up right where he left off, with the personal attacks on me, and didn't ping me to it either. I guess his being happy to eliminate personal attacks only lasted less than a week even with a warning from the mods. Below is an attack on me, and then this thread is another personal attack.
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Rob has the most attack laden posts of ANY poster (save scamel). He ALWAYS attacks - ALWAYS name calls. That his MO. Wrap strawman arguments around attacks.
WHile you may find some posts void of attacks, they will follow hundreds containing them.
No way you can convince ANYONE that Rob is pure. He is absolutey the worst when it comes to attacks.
I hope that you are right. Sometimes I wonder if they are awake enough to even realize the connection between spending and taxation.
Gee, I am glad you don't think this is inflammatory. BTW, it was the fairtaxers who LIED for over 5 YEARS about getting your full gross AND prices coming down. 5 years of name-calling and ridiculing anyone who dared questioned the ASSUMPTIONS of your paid for whores, I mean economists, only to later find out it wasn't true. You are such a pitiful hypocrite. You bitch and whine about the exact same stuff the pro-fairtaxer side does. The only question is when will the fairtaxers start presenting their case honestly.
My Rep has been a co-sponsor for a few years now, thankfully- also from FL. The House is truly the home of real tax reform right now.
That's because the national GOP prefers a liberal Senate. They'll install a RINO wherever they can, but I think they actually prefer Dem to a true conservative in the Senate. (Harris/Nelson- watch how it plays out with respect to support from DC). They sold McCollum down the river for RINO Martinez, they screwed Toomey for the backstabbing Specter, they're doing the same now for Chaffee. Disgusting.
You left out the tax cuts implemented during the Bush administration.
How dishonest of you.
Notice no matter how clearly you pointed out to Principled, he still can't be a man and admit it, he resorts to attacks. Besides Jim already pointed out to him his post contains attacks and is inflamatory. That should have brought an appology right there. But nooooo, the whinning contintues and continues. We really need to call the WHAAAAAAAMBULANCE.
Well we could perhaps call for the GOP house and senate to cut spending, and the GOP president to sign it. There's an outlandish thought. Isn't that really the goal to decrease the size of government.
Their goal is to create the largest entitlement program in human history.
Sorry Mojave, cutting taxes is the status quo because it retains the graduated income tax. Perhaps you misread the post.
Paging George Orwell.
I'm all for it. I have been for it for 40 years. Haven't you? Why has government growth continued unbounded?
Oddly, during the Clinton years the GOP house showed some balls and did control spending some. The GOP is now relying on 9-11 and Katrina as an excuse. sad
That's precisely why I commented. You specified Republicans and many Republicans are not conservative -- even those who call themselves conservative.
And not only the rank and file party member but the politicians themselves. Look at their spending habits and you'd be appalled how much pork they vote for.
I now think that the word 'conservative' is as meaningless as the term 'liberal' was after the left highjacked it.
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