Recovering Freeper in Need

PING FOR PRAYER TO END TIMES PING LIST . . . OTHER RESPONSES AS LED . . .

DEAR PRECIOUS BRO FREEPER [BF],

Qx: Below are my comments to your heart felt anguished post. As I was winding the below up . . . I was reflecting on the many times I've shared such with such folks in counseling sessions. And, I've been truly humbled and honored to be able to do such as I am in being able to write this to you.

QX: However, I felt a sternness in my spirit and an awareness--wish someone else were saying this to you--an awareness that--somehow, in some real sense--at least a major portion if not all the below is the word of The Lord to you at this time in this situation. But--PLEASE JUST ASK HIM ABOUT IT--Trash anything that The Lord doesn't confirm as something to pay attention to.

QX: BTW, you are recovering from the same thing the rest of us are recovering from, in a sense . . . willful, sinful addiction to self-defeating behaviors. From the law of sin and death; from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil vs the tree of life.

BF: "Cheated" twice with a couple beers a couple times over the last couple days, though, nominally, it'll be three weeks "clean" on Tuesday.

QX: CONGRATULATIONS. You are making wonderful progress regardless of what the accuser satan says.

QX: PLEASE imagine a line graph going up from bottom left to upper right in mountain and valley spurts but with an average slope up at say 45-60 degrees. On such a graph, some of the later valleys are higher than some of the former mountain tops. IT IS SATAN'S JOB, AT EVERY VALLYE, REGARDLESS OF HOW HIGH--TO CONVINCE YOU THAT !!!THAT!!! VALLEY IS IDENTICAL TO THE START--AND THAT YOU HAVE MADE NO PROGRESS. THAT'S SATAN'S JOB. He's the accuser.

QX: Our job is to resist the enemy--primarily in our minds. We may need to yell !!!STOP!!! to ourselves the instant we notice we are following satan's seductive thoughts in our minds. We may not be able to keep the bird from flying over. But we can keep it from building a nest in our hair.

QX: Once we STOP the seductive thought viscious circles in our minds, we may need to grab our minds with both hands and force it to dwell on something more constructive whether it's a beloved relative; a beautiful mountain scene; a Christian chorus; a Scripture; memorizing and repeating the 91st Psalm . . . whatever that's uplifting and edifying--even if it's rote, dogged determination by the numbers without much feeling.

QX: Satan's job is to seduce us through our minds, senses, feelings. Our task is to resist the enemy and tke each thought captive increasingly effectively until we succeed most of the time.

QX: FEELINGS ARE ONLY INFORMATION. They !MAY! be important information in the situation of a hand in fire. But mostly, feelings are just information. THEY MAKE TERRIBLE SLAVE DRIVERS AND TOLERABLE SERVANTS. AVOID ALLOWING FEELINGS TO BOSS YOU AROUND.

QX: Most temptations take about 10 minutes. Resisting for 10 minutes usually gives some relief for a while. When we are overcoming such a habit and addiction as alcoholism, the temptations--whether to drink or wallow in self-pity or depression--can come seemingly every other 10 min. But IF WE ARE DETERMINED AND FORCE OUR BODIES AND MINDS TO FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS AS MUCH AS WE CAN . . . that's really not true.

QX: And within 24 hours or so, the 10 min periods of temptation come less and less often. After a week, more less often. Three weeks is much better on average though certainly satan tries repeated intense onslaughts to try and shake loose the new you and push you back into the cess pool. DOGGED PERSISTENCE WORKS BETTER THAN MOST OTHER THINGS.

QX: Of course, falling is human and not to be minimized inappropriately but also NOT TO ALLOW SATAN TO MAKE MORE OF IT than it is. You would not expect a 2 year old to become an instant 21 year old in language or driving skills or anything else. Please avoid expecting yourself to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

QX: It's possible you may be blessed by Holy Spirit and turn a very big corner in the next 4 hours or 8 or 24 or 48 or whatever. You could be over a HUGE HUMP just around the corner. Only Persistence will show you that. IT'S IMPORTANT TO PICK YOURSELF UP; ASK GOD TO PICK YOU UP; ASK A LOVED ONE TO PICK YOU UP when you fall AND !NOT! LIE THERE AND WALLOW IN THE PAIN AND DESPAIR.

QX: The pain and despair are seductions, traps, illusions in a sense--just as real as any big breasted flousy prancing by in a thong. Sure, you can reach out and grab a breast and fondle it and go south. You can allow her to reach into your shorts and fondle you. But the results will not be attractive nor feel lastingly good. The same with wallowing, romping in the hay with despair and pain. Flush them.

QX: THE FOLLOWING ARE TO BE PRAYERFULLY SELECTED FROM THOUGH THE JOURNAL THING I THINK YOU NEED TO JUST DO OBEDIENTLY AS UNTO THE LORD. SEE TOWARD THE END OF THE LIST.

--Force yourself to walk around the block;

--take out the trash; clean that closet; clean the garage;

--build that model for a child or grandchild--preferably with the child;

--write cards to folks you know need a hello as badly as you need a hug;

--go visit an old folks home and hug some toothless old bitties who desperately need a kind word and touch;

--write FREEPERS YOU KNOW asking for specific prayer; write FREEPERS just ranting--whatever;

--write a journal getting all the pain out at arm's length where you can be more objective about it.

--plan next summer's garden; plan or do a new craft project.

--exercise even if it's only 5 minutes at a time;

--put some praise music on and force yourself to sing along or at least listen for 5-10 minutes at a time or more. Have praise music in the background as much as you can POSITIVELY handle through the day and night.

--Have a very anointed and dedicated and preferably experienced prayer group over and DO A SPIRITUAL HOUSE CLEANSING. Go through every room and remove all idolatrous stuff--whether it's oriental buddahs or any other obvious stuff AS WELL AS ANYTHING ELSE WHICH HAS BEEN AN IDOL TO YOU. Smash any overt idols, burn horoscopes etc. Remove anything which has been between you and God. If you have to prayerfully consider something that the group or you are uncertain about--remove it to someone else's house for 6 months while you pray about it. WE ARE TALKING LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES HERE--ANY OBJECT--ANY THING IS WORTHLESS COMPARED TO ETERNITY WITH GOD.

--Remove any family photographs or mementos which primarly bring you pain. They can go to someone else's house for 6 months to a year while you heal. Some may need trashed.

--Remove anything which detracts, hinders, drags you down in your walk with God and in your recovery.

--Remove clothing which is depressing, has associations that are destructive, whatever that hinders you. Pray and ask the group for help in replacements if needed.

--Remove any artwork which is black, dark, depressing--any artwork which is NOT uplifting.

--Get some fruit and nuts. Nibble on those vs junk food.

--at least some of the time--When you nibble on fruit, read some verses in Psalms--and not the Depressed David parts. Read the Overcoming David parts.

--wash the car; wash the walls;

--Do odd jobs for the widows in the neighorhood. Take a helper to the seductive ones.

--PLEASE WITHIN 72 HOURS DO THIS AND SEND IT TO ROB WHO POSTED THIS THREAD: START A "JOURNAL OF OVERCOMING."

--IN THE OVERCOMING JOURNAL FIRST: Write 12 things you like about yourself. If you can't write 12, write 7. If not 7, 5. You can come up with 5, especially with Holy Spirit's help. Perhaps allow Rob to post the items here.

--The next day or hours later . . . Write 3-5-7 ways you ARE IN THE PROCESS OF OVERCOMING, BECOMING THE YOU THAT YOU'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE.

--Write a list of people you cherish. Write one thing next to each name that you would do well to pray for, for that person. Pray at least 1-3 minutes a day for that thing for that person--perhaps every 4 hour period in a day.

--Write a list of the 12 best things you've done in your life. It may be small things, medium things, big things. Hugging a child can be such a thing.

--Look up on the net the list of I AM Scriptures. Post them everywhere around your home.

--Read at least 1-3 promise Scriptures aloud substituting your name . . . for example using Rob's name: "Rob is the apple of God's eye." "Rob is an overcomer by the Blood of The Lamb." "Rob is being renewed in his mind."

--JockoManning has a depression thread on FR. Look it up and read it.

--Pray and ask Holy Spirit to direct your activities day by day; moment by moment; obey Him as best you can.

= = = = = = = = = = = =

BF: This adds to guilt, but is the only way I can get myself relaxed enough to keep from bawling out of extremely-uncool and undeserved self-pity.

QX: NO. That's a deception and a lie from the pit of hell no matter how utterly true IT SEEMS. It's NOT the ONLY way.

QX: You CAN take a walk around the block. You can exercise for 30-45 minutes. You can force yourself to listen to edifying music for 30 minutes. You CAN write in a journal. You would do well to have a 2nd journal to write all the pain and depressed stuff; the anger stuff; the less than edifying stuff. AT first, you could write whatever such came through. But IF YOU NOTICED that you were using that journal to wallow--cut it off. Write something once and leave it be. After each session of writing--offer it up to God on His altar and ask Him to burn it with His purifying fire. It could be a loose leaf journal and you could burn each sheet in the fire place when you were ready to decide to leave those things at The Cross, on God's altar for HIS tending to.

QX: I assume you have made a list of people to forgive as well as those to write repentance, forgiveness to. If not, do so.

BF: I'm under great medical observation, and a crapload of antidepressants [x,y, and z].

QX: Certainly that's better than other options. Some of the anti-depressants can take a while to kick in. And, one still has to choose to do something with one's body--get it moving; occupy one's time better etc. You might want to query the MD about which antidepressants are really needed and effective for you rather than take a whole passel of them long term. But perhaps the MD feels that this crisis period requires all of them and he's the boss on that score.

BF: Tell me, Rob, what it is I'm recovering "from"

QX: As I noted above--sinful, self-defeating behaviors that became addictive.

QX: Another answer--is--you are recovering from the same thing the rest of us are recovering from--life on a sin polluted planet. Usually childhoods without proper nurturing bonding with a father figure; love buckets that never got filled as kids etc. Pretty common stuff to horrid uncommon stuff.

BF: and why, since this world is such a [messed up] place?

QX: And what's so attractive about the alternative? Hell is not a favorite recreation or vacation spot! Satan will seduce you into thinking that suicidal stuff is a grand out. The truth is, in at least most cases, it's a horrid dorr in to more suffering of greater intensity and despair. Resist satan's lies on such. Lots of us have had to do so at various times in our lives.

BF: When I was a drunk, sure, I'd be moody in the mornings, productive at work (and I NEVER drank during the day), and everyone's friend once I got home. Now it's just constant depression and having to face a [messed] up world (with way too many liberals in it .

QX: Join the club. We all live on this sin polluted planet. WE all live with our flawed selves. THIS IS BOOT CAMP. WE ARE IN TRAINING TO RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST. THIS IS SURVIVAL SCHOOL. Slap yourself upside the head, if you have to, and get a grip. There is no sweet exit of our own choosing with only rose petals for a landing.

QX: What makes you so special that you deserve your own Hawaiian paradise all to yourself and your special loved ones? We are all in this boat together whether we act or sound like it or not.

QX: The crown--at least some rewards--some say--the whole sheebang--GOES TO THE OVERCOMERS. AND ALL OF US CAN OVERCOME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB AND OUR TESTIMONY.

QX: Along that line--avoid negative words--especially outloud. Just abolish them from your speech and as much from your thoughts as possible. No putdowns--to yourself or anyone.

QX: You CAN say, I'll do better next time. "I'm learning to do that better." NO self-condemning words or phrases. Quote overcoming Scriptures if you can't think of anything else to say.

BF: I'm a very proud, spiritual Christian,

QX: Hmmmmmmm . . . Confidence in the Lord is one thing. Pride is another. Flush it. ALL --OUR-- RIGHTEOUSNESS--ALL OUR GOOD WORKS, SCRIPTURE SAYS IS USED KOTEX.

QX: The enemy wants to substitute chronic despair and humiliation for humility. HUMILITY IS A TREASURE AND A SPIRITUAL GRACE. ASK GOD FOR IT. PREPARE TO CHOOSE IT AT EVERY TOUGH CHOICE SITUATION. IT PAYS ENORMOUSLY RICH DIVIDENDS--ESPECIALLY IN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS.

QX: HE HAS REDEEMED US, NOT WE OURSELVES. HE LEADS US, ELSE WE ALL FALL IN THE DITCH. HE ENABLES US, ELSE WE ALL FALL FLAT.

BF: but I'm even too ashamed to pray, at least at length, since both He and I know that I am the problem.

QX: JOIN THE CLUB. WE ALL ARE. You can journal if you can't pray. You can say: "Lord, you know." You can groan. You can read Scripture as prayer.

QX: OPTIONAL, CERTAINLY BUT I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE IT: If you haven't prayed before in tongues, lay aside any preconceived notions about it and ask God to grace you with that gifting. Then, IN FAITH, GROAN if that's all you can do--OR--PRAY IN A SEQUENCE OF SOUNDS NOT PART OF A LANGUAGE SEQUENCE YOU KNOW. AND TRUST IN FAITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT IS CONVEYING THE ANGUISH OF YOUR SOUL, HEART, MIND, SPIRIT TO THE FATHER, PERFECTLY.

BF: The real abstraction here is if this horrid beautiful watery place is better with or without my presence. That last sentence isn't a "cry for help - please hug me I'm hurting, Oprah" throwaway - it's a serious question about which me is better: the happy, intoxicated, likely-to-be-shorter-lived friend of everyone, or the stoic, medicated, spooked, depressed sober me who no one will ever trust again since he had such "deep issues".

QX: I rebuke the latter in the Name of Jesus. That's a seduction from satan and the pit of hell.

QX: Self-pity is one of the most effective and destructive seductions of satan that's around. It's full of wholesale lies and distortions.

QX: Rather than put faith in satan's lies--put faith in God's Word to you. YOU SHALL OVERCOME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. HE DOES PREPARE A BANQUET BEFORE YOUR ENEMIES FOR YOU. HE WILL LEAD YOU BESIDE STILL WATERS. HE WILL INSURE THAT YOU PROSPER AND ARE IN HEALTH AS YOUR SOUL, SPIRIT PROSPER. HE IS TRUSTWORTHY. HE IS LIFE. The other, the rest is death. Death in hell is no fun. No vacation. No favorite recreation.

BF: What I need is reason/cognition/rationalization, and maybe I'll increase my [x] or extend it for a couple more weeks.

QX: God will give you all that you need and will latch onto. STEP BY STEP. He won't shove it down your throat. He rquires of you all you can do.

BF: You're an Internet pal, trustworthy by sheer virtue of being a Conservative, and, your advice and wisdom is easier to follow exactly because I do NOT know you personally.

QX: Wellllllllllll, you may well know me less or be annoyed with me for my opinions or whatever. LAY ASIDE ANYTHING, ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING WHICH SATAN CAN USE TO TRIP YOU UP. FOCUS ONLY, ABSOLUTELY ONLY ON THAT WHICH WILL RAISE YOU UP.

BF: If you don't mind redacting my screenname, feel free to poll/ping the Recovery List. I'll "come out" when I'm ready, I promise.

QX: Do as you see fit on that score. Am honored to be able to share the above. FWIW, I worked for a year for the retired head (in his own center) of the Navy alcohol center that treated Betty Ford.

QX: Praying for you, too. Feel free to FREEPMAIL me if you wish.

Might I suggest some time off, perhaps a week or so. A change in environment can do wonders. Pray much.

I'm sure it's tough going telling and remembering your sister's
(and family's) experience.
But it is really helpful for others to hear the story.

I've learned a lot from the "Intervention" show on A&E.
I hope that series continues and maybe does long-term follow-up
shows to see how some of the people are doing a couple oft the years later.
Especially to see how ones that relapsed managed to get back up
and get clean again.
And, less pleasantly, why/how others didn't.

Find a supportive counselor who has been there and don't be afraid to face your demons. When I did I took Isaiah 43 with me: 1"Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name (Rob). You are Mine. 2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned. Nor shall the flame scorch you. 3 For I AM the Lord your God. The Holy one of Israel, your Savior;

Praying for you that God will restore you.

You have obviously never been depressed. What a shame.

Rob, Thanks for being a contact for our fellow FReeper.

When I looked at that lonely spot many years ago, and thought my life was over and worth nothing to anyone- I was fortunate that there were people who pulled me through that. Now, many years of sobriety later- with a fantastic wife and three wonderful children whose very existence is primarily due to the help I got from others- I continue to work with people in the hope that I can possibly repay what was done for me.

And as I come to know more about God and sprituality, I believe that we all are broken in some ways. This world does it to us- to all of us in one way or another- and I believe that God waits for us to come to Him. Best of all, He accepts us as we are as long as we are willing to change.

Thanks to everyone for their kind words and support. My thoughts and prayers are particularly with those of you also dealing with this in one way or another. My prayers are that it's never you (or a friend/relative of yours) having to share a similar story and that the alcoholic gets their life back and keeps it.

Thanks again and God bless. Freepers are the best...

Steve

Fellow Freeper in need:

I'm the wife of a recovering (and often slipping) alcoholic. My prayers are for you that you may continue with the good fight and overcome. Trust in the Lord and He alone will see you through. Do not depend on your own will, but give it all over to Him. Jesus loves you very much and will help you if you let Him.

POWERFUL!

All I can do is pray for him.

THanks for your kind words. PRAISE GOD FOR ALL HE HAS TAUGHT ME AND DONE IN ME . . . all else is chaff.

redlocks . . . thanks for your loving words to our brother.

BROTHER IN NEED . . . I realize that

"Trust in the Lord and He alone will see you through. Do not depend on your own will, but give it all over to Him. Jesus loves you very much and will help you if you let Him."

can sometimes be infuriating words.

Many times I've almost stood bolt upright in church and screamed HOW!!!!?????????!!!!!

I don't know any pat answers for that. I know there's truth in the words. And that truth has sometimes taken me decades to uncover. Not the most encouraging word in the midst of despair and wanting immediate relief from myself and from pain.

But, ABANDONMENT TO HIM is a big key.

It does NOT mean ABDICATING my personal responsibility to do what He shows me to do; to do what is at hand to do; to do what I can.

It does mean releasing the results to Him and trusting that somewhere down in the dark abyss I seem to be falling forever down into--somewhere down there are HIS HANDS.

And they are there. And they will catch you.

Sometimes Abandonment means releasing the results to His timing AND HIS WAYS, HIS TYPE, HIS CHOSEN RESULTS for us at that moment--regardless of how puzzling or nonsensical.

I realize that "don't depend on your own will" is nonsense at some level. And, it doesn't mean that we become wet noodles to all life brings our way.

But it does mean put no confidence in our own will and our own ability to save ourselves ultimately. That it is only as we COOPERATE WITH HIS SAVING US that we will be saved in the wholesale meaning of the word Salvation.

But putting no confidence in the ability of our own will to save ourselves does NOT mean that our own will is to be considered useless, etc. God expects us to exercise our wills against satan and FOR GOD and for God's ways as best as we can discern them and put them into practice.

But we are to also realize THAT HE WORKS IN US TO WILL AND TO DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE as Scripture says. I know, rarely fast enough for me, either.

I think a key aspect is the focus. Our eyes on Christ is the redemptive focus. On ourselves is a spiral down.

Then there's that troublesome phrase "Let go and let God--let Jesus" help you.

Welllllllllllllllllll shoot fire!!! What ya think I've been begging him prostrate with great blood and tears to do for so long! Goodness! Already yet!

I know. Been there tons.

No pat answers on that score either. But there is a precious truth there somehow that is apprehendable even for you in your current state. Maybe you won't lay hold of all of it--but you can lay hold of more than you have before.

I think it's that abandonment issue again.

If I understand or discern accurately, pride is probably a good key. Whatever the prideful thing would be to you--MAKE A DETERMINED CHOICE TO DO THE OPPOSITE FOR 10 DAYS and see what difference it makes within you and in your relationship with God and with others.

Doing so would be a key part of letting go and letting God.

We must let go those fetters and corruptions which destroy us from within. And pride is a biggy regardless of the white robes of pseudorighteousness it likes to hide behind.

The worst humiliations you may feel you've caused yourself are nothing compared to the ones Christ suffered for you.

He knows what humiliation is like.

He's the only one who truly feels your pain.

But He doesn't want to leave you in it. He does require your cooperation, to some degree, in leading you step by step out of it. Rarely does He wave His miracle finger to fix things instantly.

I think also, letting God means an end to vain, fleshy, carnal, STRIVING.

IF ALL YOU CAN DO IS LIE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR IN A PUDDLE OF SELF-PITY AND DEPRESSION--THEN LIE THERE AND FEEL REALLY DEPRESSED for however many minutes. Then get up and do something from the list I gave you above.

If all you can do to abaondon to The Lord is to repeat an edifying verse of Scripture 100 times and ignore all the combative arguments in your mind about whatever . . . then do that.

Striving is that compulsion to save ourselves by our own vain ways. Abandonment is realizing that doesn't work and WAITING ON GOD.

And waiting on God can be some of the hardest work I've ever managed.

But we have no choice. AS Peter said, Lord, to whom could we go!

Love you Brother.

Love you Big (LUB)

I once spent a weekend with a guy in Recovery for everything. He said it got easier when he took his primary focus off himself. I didn't think much of it until I spent another weekend with another guy in Recovery at a spiritual retreat. He said his struggles are a lot easier when he is serving others.

sIn

INDEED.

I have found it so, personally, as well.

That's one big reason I included so many such items in the list.

Sometimes it takes a bit . . . if someone is sooooo depressed that they can't even dress themselves . . . it can take a bit to get out the door or dial the phone to reach out caring for someone else.

BUT IT IS VITAL TO DO SO ASAP.

Thanks much

Love hearing from you, Appy.

Keeping all the FReepers on this thread who are in need of special prayers, in mine.

Your welcome. Your post brought me back to this thread and as a result I've read some uplifting and useful posts. Thanks again for sharing. My prayers are with you. God Bless.

Steve, I am so sorry to hear about the very wretched painful death of your sister. My prayers are with you in your loss and grief and also with your family. Since this disease is also genetic, I pray it stops with your sister.

Thank you for posting her story. It is a powerful reminder to a person like myself that was blessed to get sober from the beginning of late stage alcoholism at 21. I would not have made it to thirty. Still sober one day at a time at forty, I need the reminder that this is what is in store for me too, if I pick up that bottle again. Bless you.

I hear you Steve(((Hugs))),I lost my son Ed because of this on Aug.2nd.He was 44 years old.I can say I know how you feel. Prayers.

Depression is sometimes like being drunk. It's really hard to "sober up". I always found that walking/hiking kept the misery away.

Find a Church that has Eucharistic Adoration and sit in front of our Lord and lay all your problems on Him. He will come through.

MOVING THE BODY IS A BIG HELP IN DEPRESSION.

It actually impacts the hormonal aspects of depression.