Posted on 08/24/2006 10:02:06 AM PDT by presidio9
A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.
Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.
"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).
LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.
"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.
"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."
Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.
William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.
"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.
The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.
"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.
"All I said was that IMO this belief (that women cannot teach males in church) is stupid."
Do you believe the bible is the word of God?
To say that someone may not teach is not the same as saying that someone is not 'GOOD' enough to teach - unless by 'GOOD' enough you mean qualified, which I believe you did not. If that's what I believed, it would be insulting and degrading. I believe it would also be un-Christian.
Why is that because I have formed an opinion that it is ignorant and wrong to say that women can't teach or preach that it must mean I'm 'prejudiced' in some way.
You didn't say it was ignorant and wrong. You said it was impossible the person did not have totalitarian tendencies. That is bigotry, pure and simple.
But at anyrate, I do not agree with ANY doctrine that claims that only the male POV should be allowed to come forth in a religious setting. I think it's malarky and a way to keep women dependant on men.
Neither do I. Nor do I believe that limiting the role of teachers to men (which I don't support) is the same as limiting what is taught to the male POV. Or do you not think that men can see and express a woman's POV?
Shalom.
One MIGHT grant her cause if she had exhausted the Church mediation before going to the papers, but the letter makes it clear that she did not do so.
In other words, the press made it a feminist issue. The Pastor respected this woman too much to smear her in the press. You bought the MSM POV hook, line, and sinker.
Shalom.
Hmmm. Is there a hint here of someone who is not secure enough in her personhood to be able to accept role differences without feeling attacked?
Shalom.
Many women also find that the Biblical definition of "submit" has nothing to do with wiping hineys or with rolling over like a doormat every time the husband speaks.
Shalom.
And that's why the teacher went on his "no women teachers" kick? Interesting angle.
This fellow is a nitwit and should be under protective custody before he hurts himself.
I am a 60 year old Mother of 3 Sons. I taught those boys to say their prayers, clean their plates and to respect other people's property. All while their father was out trying to earn enough to put food on the table. All 3 of my boys turnout out to be tax paying, productive member of society. They go to church, their children are in Parochial Schools.
I didn't do such a bad job, if I do say so myself.
Give me a break.
Words have meaning. Anyone can accept or reject it. However to say it's 'open to interpretation' is like saying it's open to be misrepresented by everyone.
>>>My wife is my HELPER and as she fulfills her role which benefits my family without measure, is allows God to guide me clearer in our direction as a family. >>>
Exactly my point. You are the supremo and she merely assists...
>>>Hmmm. Is there a hint here of someone who is not secure enough in her personhood to be able to accept role differences without feeling attacked?>>>
Why does there have to be 'role differences'? I don't feel attacked, I feel disgusted.
"Do you believe every single word is the literal word of God"
Yes
"Or is it open for interpretation?"
Its open for study. For me its not open to debate regarding its accuracy. I accept that the bible says its wrong to steal. I also accept that men are supposed to be the leaders although I would prefer to cruise FR and play computer games. Unfortunately, my wife has "taught" me that I should go do other things instead. :)
Xena's Guy changes the toilet paper AND puts the seat down.
But just to poke me, he puts the TP on the roll coming out from under, instead of over the top. That bastid.
"Exactly my point. You are the supremo and she merely assists."
No merely about it in my marriage. My wife and I work as a team. Without either of us carrying our weight the family would suffer.
That's what I believe, and what I believe the Bible teaches.
just as linked to God,
Actually, my experience is that women are MORE spiritually attuned than men are. I can't explain why. I think this is why women are deemed to have better "intuition" and men are seen as more "logical." If I had written the Star Wars trilogy all the Jedi would have been women because I have seen this shown more often than not.
The most intelligent relationships that I have seen, from a spiritual point of view, is where a man recognizes his wife's spiritual experiences as valid and the man provides the solid look at Scripture to verify that the Spiritual experience is from a G-dly source. This opinion is not about either one being better, but about each serving a different role.
In any event, women are AT LEAST as linked to G-d as men are. just as spiritually valid a teacher.
That's what I believe the Bible teaches. I understand why others don't think so. I don't attend their Churches, but I don't call them Satan either. I think the first think Jesus will say to me is "Welcome." I think the second thing He will say to me is, "Class is over there and BOY do you need it."
I won't worship a God who plays favorites.
You must LOVE the ultra-Calvinists. I won't worship a god who plays favorites either. I worship G-d the Father, G-d the Son, G-d the Holy Spirit because I believe He does not.
Shalom.
"Why does there have to be 'role differences'? I don't feel attacked, I feel disgusted."
Because each and every person has gifts and challenges. Things they excel at and things they stink at.
Do you suggest that men and women are exactly the same?
I'm not going to look up the reference right now, but I believe it is James who tells us the judgement a teacher will be put under. Us fundies are actually a little nervous about being asked to teach.
Shalom.
Hmmm. On the one hand we have a MSM report. On the other hand we have the Pastor's letter.
I know which one I'm going to believe.
Shalom.
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