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US preacher defends belief women can't teach men
Reuters ^ | 08/24/06

Posted on 08/24/2006 10:02:06 AM PDT by presidio9

A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.

Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.

"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).

LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.

"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.

"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."

Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.

William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.

"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.

The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.

"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; US: New York
KEYWORDS: postedinwrongforum
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To: newcats

"All I said was that IMO this belief (that women cannot teach males in church) is stupid."

Do you believe the bible is the word of God?


181 posted on 08/24/2006 12:12:45 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: sandbar
I do. To say that someone is not 'GOOD' enough to present teachings to the church is insulting and degrading. IMO

To say that someone may not teach is not the same as saying that someone is not 'GOOD' enough to teach - unless by 'GOOD' enough you mean qualified, which I believe you did not. If that's what I believed, it would be insulting and degrading. I believe it would also be un-Christian.

Why is that because I have formed an opinion that it is ignorant and wrong to say that women can't teach or preach that it must mean I'm 'prejudiced' in some way.

You didn't say it was ignorant and wrong. You said it was impossible the person did not have totalitarian tendencies. That is bigotry, pure and simple.

But at anyrate, I do not agree with ANY doctrine that claims that only the male POV should be allowed to come forth in a religious setting. I think it's malarky and a way to keep women dependant on men.

Neither do I. Nor do I believe that limiting the role of teachers to men (which I don't support) is the same as limiting what is taught to the male POV. Or do you not think that men can see and express a woman's POV?

Shalom.

182 posted on 08/24/2006 12:16:12 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: driftdiver
No.
Do you believe every single word is the literal word of God
Or is it open for interpretation?
183 posted on 08/24/2006 12:16:36 PM PDT by newcats (Natural Born Skeptic)
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To: 1rudeboy
The letter makes it quite clear that the primary reason the woman was dumped so unceremoneously was because she ran to the papers when she disagreed with the Pastor instead of discussing the issue within the Church.

One MIGHT grant her cause if she had exhausted the Church mediation before going to the papers, but the letter makes it clear that she did not do so.

In other words, the press made it a feminist issue. The Pastor respected this woman too much to smear her in the press. You bought the MSM POV hook, line, and sinker.

Shalom.

184 posted on 08/24/2006 12:18:29 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: sandbar
IF you have a 'partner' (or wife, as I have a husband, the word partner was meant as a description of our relationship), I hope one day she realizes that there is more to life than wiping the hiney of the oh-so-superb male.

Hmmm. Is there a hint here of someone who is not secure enough in her personhood to be able to accept role differences without feeling attacked?

Shalom.

185 posted on 08/24/2006 12:20:16 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Many women find that, as they submit to their husbands,

Many women also find that the Biblical definition of "submit" has nothing to do with wiping hineys or with rolling over like a doormat every time the husband speaks.

Shalom.

186 posted on 08/24/2006 12:21:40 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: ArGee
The letter makes it quite clear that the primary reason the woman was dumped so unceremoneously was because she ran to the papers when she disagreed with the Pastor instead of discussing the issue within the Church.

And that's why the teacher went on his "no women teachers" kick? Interesting angle.

187 posted on 08/24/2006 12:21:46 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: presidio9

This fellow is a nitwit and should be under protective custody before he hurts himself.

I am a 60 year old Mother of 3 Sons. I taught those boys to say their prayers, clean their plates and to respect other people's property. All while their father was out trying to earn enough to put food on the table. All 3 of my boys turnout out to be tax paying, productive member of society. They go to church, their children are in Parochial Schools.

I didn't do such a bad job, if I do say so myself.

Give me a break.


188 posted on 08/24/2006 12:21:54 PM PDT by Iowa Granny (You know you are getting old when everything either dries up or leaks)
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To: newcats
Do you believe every single word is the literal word of God? Or is it open for interpretation?

Words have meaning. Anyone can accept or reject it. However to say it's 'open to interpretation' is like saying it's open to be misrepresented by everyone.

189 posted on 08/24/2006 12:24:50 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: MadeInAmerica

>>>My wife is my HELPER and as she fulfills her role which benefits my family without measure, is allows God to guide me clearer in our direction as a family. >>>

Exactly my point. You are the supremo and she merely assists...


190 posted on 08/24/2006 12:25:58 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: aimhigh
Words have meaning. Anyone can accept or reject it. However to say it's 'open to interpretation' is like saying it's open to be misrepresented by everyone.

Not quite an answer to the question.
191 posted on 08/24/2006 12:27:24 PM PDT by newcats (Natural Born Skeptic)
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To: ArGee

>>>Hmmm. Is there a hint here of someone who is not secure enough in her personhood to be able to accept role differences without feeling attacked?>>>

Why does there have to be 'role differences'? I don't feel attacked, I feel disgusted.


192 posted on 08/24/2006 12:27:36 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: newcats

"Do you believe every single word is the literal word of God"

Yes

"Or is it open for interpretation?"

Its open for study. For me its not open to debate regarding its accuracy. I accept that the bible says its wrong to steal. I also accept that men are supposed to be the leaders although I would prefer to cruise FR and play computer games. Unfortunately, my wife has "taught" me that I should go do other things instead. :)


193 posted on 08/24/2006 12:29:02 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Perdogg
US preacher defends belief women can't teach men

Damned if he isn't right. I've tried for YEARS to teach Xena's Guy which side of the sink the dirty dishes go on.
194 posted on 08/24/2006 12:29:41 PM PDT by Xenalyte (No movie shall triumph over "Snakes on a Plane.")
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To: mockingbyrd

Xena's Guy changes the toilet paper AND puts the seat down.

But just to poke me, he puts the TP on the roll coming out from under, instead of over the top. That bastid.


195 posted on 08/24/2006 12:30:29 PM PDT by Xenalyte (No movie shall triumph over "Snakes on a Plane.")
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To: sandbar

"Exactly my point. You are the supremo and she merely assists."

No merely about it in my marriage. My wife and I work as a team. Without either of us carrying our weight the family would suffer.


196 posted on 08/24/2006 12:31:01 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: najida
Maybe, but I would still in my core believe a woman is just as good as a man,

That's what I believe, and what I believe the Bible teaches.

just as linked to God,

Actually, my experience is that women are MORE spiritually attuned than men are. I can't explain why. I think this is why women are deemed to have better "intuition" and men are seen as more "logical." If I had written the Star Wars trilogy all the Jedi would have been women because I have seen this shown more often than not.

The most intelligent relationships that I have seen, from a spiritual point of view, is where a man recognizes his wife's spiritual experiences as valid and the man provides the solid look at Scripture to verify that the Spiritual experience is from a G-dly source. This opinion is not about either one being better, but about each serving a different role.

In any event, women are AT LEAST as linked to G-d as men are. just as spiritually valid a teacher.

That's what I believe the Bible teaches. I understand why others don't think so. I don't attend their Churches, but I don't call them Satan either. I think the first think Jesus will say to me is "Welcome." I think the second thing He will say to me is, "Class is over there and BOY do you need it."

I won't worship a God who plays favorites.

You must LOVE the ultra-Calvinists. I won't worship a god who plays favorites either. I worship G-d the Father, G-d the Son, G-d the Holy Spirit because I believe He does not.

Shalom.

197 posted on 08/24/2006 12:31:36 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: sandbar

"Why does there have to be 'role differences'? I don't feel attacked, I feel disgusted."

Because each and every person has gifts and challenges. Things they excel at and things they stink at.

Do you suggest that men and women are exactly the same?


198 posted on 08/24/2006 12:33:29 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: CharlesWayneCT
And I think LOTS of people are incapable of teaching.

I'm not going to look up the reference right now, but I believe it is James who tells us the judgement a teacher will be put under. Us fundies are actually a little nervous about being asked to teach.

Shalom.

199 posted on 08/24/2006 12:33:40 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Not only that, but some people (not you necessarily) are treating his letter as dispositive, when it is not.

Hmmm. On the one hand we have a MSM report. On the other hand we have the Pastor's letter.

I know which one I'm going to believe.

Shalom.

200 posted on 08/24/2006 12:35:00 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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