Posted on 08/24/2006 10:02:06 AM PDT by presidio9
A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.
Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.
"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).
LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.
"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.
"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."
Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.
William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.
"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.
The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.
"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.
That's because you were discipled by the wrong people. If you had been discipled by the right people you would have seen the truth about the link between women and goodness and Holiness.
But, as I said, that's for another time.
Shalom.
Wierd fundie stuff.
I was beginning to worry.
Nicely said.
Shalom.
You'll get used to it. On the economics threads I am usually told that my belief in capitalism and free-markets makes me a socialist. Comes with the territory.
You posted at post #12, and post #15 contains the full text of the preacher's explanation for his action.
Maybe,
but I would still in my core believe a woman is just as good as a man,
just as linked to God,
just as spiritually valid a teacher.
I won't worship a God who plays favorites.
I found it and read it. Doesn't change my impression at all. The letter speaks of "classrooms." I must assume that they are not located in the church itself. I must also assume that this woman taught in one of the classrooms. So all of the comments on this thread up to this point on this thread about this preacher not allowing this woman to teach in church are unmitigated BS.
The simple fact is that the letter does nothing to clear-up the "controversy."
I'm actually looking for GOD'S point of view in church, not "man" or "woman"s point of view.
And I think LOTS of people are incapable of teaching. But this isn't about being incapable, it's about God's plan for his church. Just as God decided that many of his creatures would not be granted eternal heavenly life, he determined (according to some interpretation of scripture) that church would be governed by rules, one of which was that women would not actually TEACH male adults.
I was in a bible study run by a woman from a baptist church when I was a teenager. When one of the guys in the study turned 18, the woman told him HE would now have to lead the bible study because he was an adult male, and she could no longer teach him.
He stepped up to his responsibility as an adult male in the church, and we all learned from him what God wanted us to learn.
OMGSTFULOL
I normally assume that people staking-out a position provide a source for their assertions, and hopefully a bit of application. If you stay on this website some time longer, you'll pick up on it.
Not only that, but some people (not you necessarily) are treating his letter as dispositive, when it is not. Making all the "it's in the letter" comments comic.
1tim2 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
"To say that someone is not 'GOOD' enough to present teachings to the church is insulting and degrading. IMO "
Who said that?
"Why is that because I have formed an opinion that it is ignorant and wrong to say that women can't teach or preach that it must mean I'm 'prejudiced' in some way. By saying that in itself you are showing your sexist attitude."
Nobody said women can't teach. Women are some of the best leaders in my church. Men are also some of the best. It takes a team.
"I do not agree with ANY doctrine that claims that only the male POV should be allowed to come forth in a religious setting. I think it's malarky and a way to keep women dependant on men."
I certainly don't approach this issue as men are better than women. People are people. I do think the bible should be used as our guide and do my best to adhere to it. If I don't agree with what it says I certainly don't expect God to change his mind. Its usually because my mind isn't right or I don't understand.
>>>Wierd fundie stuff.>>>
Amen to that!!! I was raised in a VERY Christian household, but my mother preached WITH my father. These same men who are heralding Paul probably enjoy their women wearing makeup and not walking around with a scarf over their head at all times. Cause he said for women to do that too. As I said earlier, most people who feel this way about women/church, pick and choose what they want to make them feel "Holy" and it oddly is the thing that puts them in charge, LOL.
>>>Wiggle room? roflmao. She will NOT bear any responsibility for his screw ups if she is doing what she is to do. Looking for "wiggle room" is certainly NOT one of them. >>>
Awww, isn't that sweet. "Just sit back there and shut up. You won't have to worry about making sure you have food or anything, no responsibility, but of course you have no say so in anything. Be grateful". BS!
>>>I wish your "partner" luck.....>>>
Yeah, love your smarta&& remark. IF you have a 'partner' (or wife, as I have a husband, the word partner was meant as a description of our relationship), I hope one day she realizes that there is more to life than wiping the hiney of the oh-so-superb male.
I agree that going public with the controversy indicates a certain level of underhandedness. I also got the impression that the preacher's letter was written with the assistance of a lawyer. Think about that for a moment . . . it's likely no one is telling the complete truth. The preacher, the teacher, or the press.
"He was holding truth, per his convictions to scripture. "
I think that is what scares people. He doesn't wait for the liberals to tell him what to think.
"He was holding truth, per his convictions to scripture. "
I think that is what scares people. He doesn't wait for the liberals to tell him what to think.
Actually I completely agree. A matter of order. I have no problem with that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.