Posted on 08/24/2006 10:02:06 AM PDT by presidio9
A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.
Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.
"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).
LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.
"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.
"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."
Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.
William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.
"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.
The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.
"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.
>>>Once worked with a woman who had seious issues with Pauls writings. Then she discovered the responsibilities that God charged men with. She changed her mind and stated that women got the better deal. >>>
Well then she is an idiot IMO. Because there is no wiggle room for the woman to be at the mercy of the stupidity of man. He might have the supposed responsibility, but no guarantee he will do what he is supposed to. But the woman would bare the burden for HIS screw up.
No thank you, I'll just handle things myself or with a PARTNER. (that's a male partner for you lesbophobes out there)
>>>It is possible - possible mind you - that a man can think a woman should not teach in Church and still not have totalitarian tendencies>>>
Nope
Perhaps she didn't want to "retire". Some of the members didn't want change and she might have been one of them. Others had taken their grievances public in the past and she may have done the same here.
Thanks, but most of them (outside of my parents/grandparents) really are very good people.
I used to believe because I didn't have any bond with them, or feel any closeness, then I must be a very evil person (like I was told).
Took me a long time to realize that I could be a good person, and still be very different from other good people.
That's all I meant by the size 4 shoes. I wear a size 7 ;)
Great. I have now been informed that there is information, somewhere, that I have not seen. Thanks, everyone.
For what it's worth, I believe women can teach in church. But I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me has totalitarian tendencies.
Where did your particular prejudice come from?
Shalom.
Absolutely.
One day we can talk about the inerrency of the Bible. I believe it would support your assertion above.
But that's for later.
Shalom.
Well then she is an idiot IMO. Because there is no wiggle room for the woman to be at the mercy of the stupidity of man. He might have the supposed responsibility, but no guarantee he will do what he is supposed to. But the woman would bare the burden for HIS screw up.
No thank you, I'll just handle things myself or with a PARTNER. (that's a male partner for you lesbophobes out there)
Great. I have now been informed that there is information, somewhere, that I have not seen. Thanks, everyone.
LOL! The Bible is pretty much a no go for me.
The best book I ever read that for me, opened a door was called "Grandmother's Secrets" written by a young girl growning up in pre-revolution Iran.
Has nothing to do with politics or religion really, but it was the first time someone gave me a clear link between women and goodness and what is Holy. It was like a light bulb went on.
Christianity never gave me that.
Actually, it doesn't take psychic abilities to make this claim (although if there is no afterlife, your "finding out" will be unsatifying simply because you will have no ability to know you were right).
After all, you will die some day. If there is an afterlife, and worshipping Jesus was stupid, you will find out, and if we are right about Jesus, you will find out. If there is no afterlife you will "find out" but not in a perceptive manner.
It's like you saying "it's not going to rain tomorrow", and I say "we'll know tomorrow if you are right or wrong".
>>>Am I permitted to disagree?>>>
Of course, that's what makes this country great.
>>>For what it's worth, I believe women can teach in church. But I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me has totalitarian tendencies.>>>
I do. To say that someone is not 'GOOD' enough to present teachings to the church is insulting and degrading. IMO
>>>Where did your particular prejudice come from?>>>
It didn't 'come' from anywhere? Why is that because I have formed an opinion that it is ignorant and wrong to say that women can't teach or preach that it must mean I'm 'prejudiced' in some way. By saying that in itself you are showing your sexist attitude.
But at anyrate, I do not agree with ANY doctrine that claims that only the male POV should be allowed to come forth in a religious setting. I think it's malarky and a way to keep women dependant on men.
>>>What is that supposed to mean?
Just what it says ... the show could not be believed any more ... ;-)>>>
Why do I get the feeling you are trouble stirring? Hehe
The simple fact is that the letter does nothing to clear-up the "controversy."
You're previous response to me ALMOST had me convinced that you were simply comparing the one minor aspect and your choice of "taliban" had no greater meaning.
But now THIS response shows that, in fact, you did deliberately choose the "taliban" reference to draw in all the negative aspects of the taliban and ascribe them to this man who has done nothing more than apply rationally a reasonable scriptural view of who should be teaching an ADULT SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS at his church.
Unless you think that people have some unalienable right to teach sunday school at any church they want, your comparison and reference to "jackboots and riding-crop" are simply offensive personal attacks on someone you don't know, a disrespect for another human being based on your own prejudice.
>>>Wiggle room? roflmao. She will NOT bear any responsibility for his screw ups if she is doing what she is to do. Looking for "wiggle room" is certainly NOT one of them. >>>
Awww, isn't that sweet. "Just sit back there and shut up. You won't have to worry about making sure you have food or anything, no responsibility, but of course you have no say so in anything. Be grateful". BS!
>>>I wish your "partner" luck.....>>>
Yeah, love your smarta&& remark. IF you have a 'partner' (or wife, as I have a husband, the word partner was meant as a description of our relationship), I hope one day she realizes that there is more to life than wiping the hiney of the oh-so-superb male.
Women are more easily fooled by lies.
_______________
And you base this statement on the allegory of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden?
We have an eternity to live with God in heaven, after a brief stint on earth where we might suffer many things for the sake of our obedience to God.
The beauty of being a woman in this world is that you are allowed to follow the lead of your husband, and while you obviously will suffer from his stupidity, you will earn rewards in heaven, and in fact God himself will intervene as necessary to make your life bearable on earth as you submit to His plan which involves following your husband.
Many women find that, as they submit to their husbands, their husbands recognize the responsibility they know have, and it really does make everything better. Many husbands have terrible families because the woman has taken the responsibility and the men shirk their duties and the children don't grow up with the appropriate structure.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that right now I'm arguing on the side that is being compared to the Taliban, while over on the "plan b" thread someone is calling me the tool of Satan.
He's entitled to his opinion, but I reject your characterization that it is "reasonable." That being said, I do not have Scriptural authority to prove it is not. I didn't pay much attention to the Catholic nuns that taught me . . . I was too young to really care.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.