Posted on 08/21/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Bob J
In earlier news it was reported that a Baptist Sunday school teacher of 54 years was let go from her position because "My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," the Pastor was quoted as saying.
Apparently in a letter sent to the teacher earlier in the month they qouted from First Timothy Two, 11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
This news was posted on FR here and here.
It's an interesting topic considering the current discussions regarding Sharia law and the treatment of women in Islam. Some FReepers were shocked and others appeared to support the policy based on scripture interpretation.
What is your opinion?
No.
My perspective is that pastor-teacher is a gift from the Holy Spirit, just as some may have a gift of helps, or of administration, or discernment, or evangelicism. These being spiritual gifts from God, through the person of the Holy Spirit, given to each and every believer per God's plan and Providence.
Some have one gift and not another, others may have several, and those with more have more responsibility to use those gifts.
Many of the questions regarding women in ecuminical church offices, seems to be driven more by a worldly thinking, rather than simply walking in the Spirit.
I see passages where women indeed have equal spiritual status, but not necessarily the same or equal gift as men. I see where women may have organized bodies of believers, or helped in administering a church or financing its operation, but not the teaching and pastoring of a flock by faith and action of the Holy Spirit through them as an agent of God.
As I understand it, it is analogous to insisting men cannot go into labor and give childbirth. One might simply state that through faith in Christ, but there is no need to become worldly and arrogant and frustrated, thinking that such a belief reflects an inherant bigotry and animosity towards women.
If you don't want women teaching Sunday School (or Bible Study) to adults in your church, volunteer to do it yourself, otherwise don't criticise the women who have been called upon to step up to the plate because the men are too "busy" to do so.
I actually agree with you (I think). Women should teach women and men should teach men. That's the ideal. Unfortunately, there are a lot of Christian men and so-called Christian men who have abdicated their duty in this regard.
Sharia isn't just for muzzies anymore, apparently.
Then the church leaders should not have made Timothy an issue. They made their bed and now they will sleep in it.
"Women should teach women and men should teach men."
They could do it in the bathrooms and then there would be no need to build new facilities.
The bible itself specifically says that Adam was not decieved but it sounds like you have more fun twisting the Bible than reading it.
Different denominations of Christianity treat the subject of women as priests and pastors differently. I guess it is their right to do as they please or as their doctrine dictates.
As a non-Christian, I have no firm opinion on the subject. I have known women who acted as pastors and have found them to be as knowledgeable as most of the male ministers I have met.
It's a matter of denominational decision.
So, in your opinion, if there are no men willing to teach, there should be no teaching at all. That's a recipie for the dumbing down of the church if I ever saw one.
Have you forgotten that Scripture tells us that Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollo the gospel of Jesus? The fact that Priscilla is mentioned first tells us she probably was the main teacher. If you have a problem with women ever teaching for any reason, you have a problem with scripture.
At first I really LOL at this one but then realised that it would be very disrespectful to carry on a bible study while men are using the urinals or while women are flushing.
It's not up to me to decide, it's up to me to do as God says. We need to spend our time finding out what God wants, not what we want. That being said....
My understanding is that Paul was telling Timothy how to conduct himself in the Church (1 Timothy 3:15). This teaching that Paul gave him concerning women is in the context of the first 3 chapters of 1 Timothy. Those 3 chapters deal with qualifications for men (and their wives) to hold offices or positions in the church.
In Chapter 4, he deals with how Timothy, a young preacher, is to conduct himself.
The teaching in the 2nd chapter of 1 Timothy deals with women teaching men in the context of the Church affairs.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
If this meant that a woman was to NEVER teach a man, then how could an believing wife teach her unbelieving husband or boyfriend?
I believe that a careful study of the scriptures will indicate that this is referring only to matters when the church is gathered together.
Absolutely! Paul was one Rabbi sent to the Goyim, and from the replies I've seen he didn't do a very good job teaching them. A woman couldn't do any worse.
Are you calling all Christian's Goyim?
Followers of Jesus dye Ishtar eggs and hide them in the woods.
Followers of Yeshua observe Chanukah.
Followers of Jesus prop up ancient Babylonian holiday trees in their living rooms (Jeremiah 10). You figure it out.
"So, in your opinion, if there are no men willing to teach, there should be no teaching at all. That's a recipie for the dumbing down of the church if I ever saw one."
That's not my opinion, it seems to be God's.
"Have you forgotten that Scripture tells us that Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollo the gospel of Jesus? The fact that Priscilla is mentioned first tells us she probably was the main teacher."
Are Priscilla and Aquila then going to hell for teaching scripture to Jesus?
"If you have a problem with women ever teaching for any reason, you have a problem with scripture."
I have no problem with women teaching anything they are qualified to teach. That includes scripture. But you are avoiding my point. The Bible makes it clear women are not to to teach men about scripture. It makes no exceptions, why are exceptions being allowed due to convenience or even necessity?
Hmm...
Are you mocker, who deliberately slings epithets and insults in an attempt to stir up dissent?
"If this meant that a woman was to NEVER teach a man, then how could an believing wife teach her unbelieving husband or boyfriend?"
By referring them to the nearest teacher with testicles.
"I believe that a careful study of the scriptures will indicate that this is referring only to matters when the church is gathered together."
Interpretation is a dangerous thing. Why not just take God at his word?
I have a friend who is Methodist. Her pastor is divorced and remarried.
Of course, in Biblical history there were women that rose up and led, with the full calling of God.
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