Posted on 08/21/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Bob J
In earlier news it was reported that a Baptist Sunday school teacher of 54 years was let go from her position because "My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," the Pastor was quoted as saying.
Apparently in a letter sent to the teacher earlier in the month they qouted from First Timothy Two, 11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
This news was posted on FR here and here.
It's an interesting topic considering the current discussions regarding Sharia law and the treatment of women in Islam. Some FReepers were shocked and others appeared to support the policy based on scripture interpretation.
What is your opinion?
Interesting. Didn't know that.
Very well put. Bears repeating. Thanks.
However, Paul, John and Peter agreed that we have a new law in Christ, that nothing God cleansed is unclean, that we should love one another and protect the weakest among us from stumbling. We know that we have been reconciled to God, by God, and that we and all of our brothers and sisters in Christ were "circumcised by Christ, and not with hands." We are in Christ, covered by Christ, and His Spirit dwells next to ours.
No one should seek to be first, no one is to be domineering, and we should all submit ourselves one to the another. It's the disputes that are a shame.
Wow... say, are you married? yeah? dang it....
You don't have a sister do you? :-)
END TIMES/PROPHETIC PING LIST
Please let me know if you want on or off it.
No, they should not. Nor should they be in charge of government of any sort.
Thanks for the question, I have sent you a private reply in answer to your post.
Actually, I saw they pulled the thread and went my way. Just came back today to find it going strong.
I think I understand that perspective somewhat.
Certainly Shrillery should not be in charge of . . .
even . . .
a group of arthritic, alzeimer's ridden dog catchers in Siberia. Though given her goals . . . of the two, she can go to Siberia, any day.
Pickers and Choosers - those that pick and choose the passages that apply to them, determined that THEIR opinion in such matters is more correct that God's.
If that was their best "legal basis" I have to assume the others were quite petty.
I see some people saying women shouldn't teach men unless there are no men to do it.
It seems scripture is clear on this issue, not "women shall not teach men unless..."
Not doesn't apply, regardless of what Tim2 says. I've shown that it doesn't apply.
Will be interesting to understand the whys of a lot of things in Heaven.
A lot of the answers are already here. I think this prohibition started a long time ago...
But, you are spot on with the last part. I've been making a list and checking it twice!
"and surely you will not die!"
Then again, Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, not to the Jews. A particular gift of the Holy Spirit which IMHO, might provide a substantial amount of authority to his writings.
Good post,..or as we used to say in the Marine Corps, there is no rank amongst wifes. Of course that probably wouldn;t be very popular with the previous White House Administration.
wifes=wives
"Then again, Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, not to the Jews. A particular gift of the Holy Spirit which IMHO, might provide a substantial amount of authority to his writings."
No question. All Christian denominations use Paul's letters as part of scripture. Some, sadly, use them PRIMARILY, often ignoring the Gospels almost altogether except at Christmas and Easter.
Paul wrote in two ways in his epistles. Sometimes, he was writing to a specific individual, as in the two letters to Timothy. At other times, he was writing to a church.
Timothy was a sometimes companion to Paul, and those letters are sometimes quite personal. For me, when I was interpreting the epistles, I paid close attention when Paul wrote in the first person. When he said "I don't like something," then I always took it as a personal message, not a matter of doctrine. When he wrote in a more general way, not bringing himself into it, it seemed to me that his words could be taken as a general statement, that would apply to all.
In almost all cases where Paul is discussing the role of women, he speaks in the first person. I think that is a telling point. Paul, personally, never married, and really didn't think that anyone should, unless they could simply not avoid sinful sexuality unless they did. He said that HE would not allow a woman to teach in church. He did NOT say that women could not teach in church.
These are real distinctions. Paul's instructions to the far-flung churches in the Gentile world are very interesting, but must be read carefully if Paul's intent is to be clear.
I haven't read every post on this long discussion, so apologies if I repeat points already made.
The reporting on this story is awful. Mrs. Lambert and a small group of long time church members have a serious disagreement with the new direction of the church and have gone outside of their church's rules and policies for such disagreement by hiring a lawyer and writing public letters. Please visit the Waterford Daily Times news website or the First Baptist Church website for a little more background on this story. To me, the issue in this case is not Timothy, but a conflict between church leadership and a small group of church members.
The way the media is playing this strikes me as yet another example of how journalism doesn't "get it" about religion. The issue is not Christian doctrine on male-female relationships, but rather of intrachurch conflict. Media reports that play the sex angle are written by reporters that are either lazy, stupid, or biased.
The doctrine issues in Timothy are important and warrant discussion, but not from this story.
You say that to my wife.
Just let me get some Doritos and a beer before the fun starts.
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