Posted on 07/09/2006 4:41:38 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA, in which several parishes and even a few dioceses are opting out of the church, isn't simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It also is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.
Embraced by the leadership of all the mainline Protestant denominations, as well as large segments of American Catholicism, liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church.
Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, all the mainline churches and movements within churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are demographically declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.
It is not entirely coincidental that at about the same time that Episcopalians, at their general convention in Columbus, Ohio, were thumbing their noses at a directive from the worldwide Anglican Communion that they "repent" of confirming the openly gay Bishop V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe."
Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Unfortunately, I have. In the time I've been on FR, I've read a fair number of obnoxious and ignorant anti-Protestant posts.
Christianity is growing, just not here.
Christianity flourishes best where it is under constant threat.
Chrisitanity is punishable by death in China but it is exploding...
Same here. Jesus criticized the Pharisees in part for elevating tradition to the level of Scripture. And he taught others by saying, "It is written," not "We've done it this way for 500 years."
Eph 1:21 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Since I know you claim Peter to be the first pope, I guess I should show you that you started of badly, by naming a guy that was wrong as head of the church.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Our archbishop has encouraged the Latin Mass and we can attend one six miles from our house whenever we like.
But our regular parish is extremely orthodox and conservative (REAL instruction for the kids and adults - Adoration - Two Hearts Devotions - Penance services in Lent and Advent - Chant and Renaissance polyphony - scriptural sermons with some real meat in them - ) so we have two good choices.
Surely there's something orthodox near you.
Revelation 5:8, and 8:3-4.
Nobody is sinless except Christ (and His mother, through God's divine interposition on her behalf.)
But who collected the Scriptures and assembled the Bible as we know it today?
And what did the Church do BEFORE the Bible was assembled?
We have been relatively ineffective in dealing with this problem though. Our actions do not measure up to our rhetoric. I went to a parish where molestors were transferred instead of properly counseled and disciplined. And yes they should have even been prosecuted and imprisoned!! One of my priests committed suicide over his issues. This causes great harm to a congregation and causes lingering damage. Pope JP II addressed these issues towards the end of his life but it should have been addressed in a more aggressive manner. I believe PB is starting to deal with the issue realistically.
marking thread place
We have similar problems with liberals in our midst as the Protestant churches do. We have our share of disunity as well. We have lots of pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Catholics as well who go to mass and receive communion. The conservative protestants take stances on Christian doctrine as our Pope does and the problems are still very similar. The Christian church is divided within itself across all denominations. It is a problem that is not unique and I see no denomination as superior to the other in dealing with it.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Rev 8:3-4 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.
"which are the prayers OF the saints." Not TO the saints.
And in both these cases, the saints are not defined as RCC holy men, but rather all Christian faithfull.
The early Christians refered to believers as...saints.
It was the RCC that twisted the term into special holy men.
There is NO scripture where a Biblical personality ever prayed to a dead Holy man. Jesus told us to pray to the Father: God, not to somebody's uncle or sister.
As for purgatory. Jesus never spoke of it. He spoke of judgement, Heaven and Hell.
Why? because it doesn't EXIST.
Why would God NOT tell us in His Word about something as profound as purgatory?
Answer: it does NOT exist!
Only the RCC has the gall to twist scripture away from its original intent and create the false sanctuary: purgatory.
How many millions will burn in hell because of the Pope's LIE.
And thats what purgatory is: A lie, A false hope. A fund raiser.
"and I see no denomination as superior to the other in dealing with it."
Bingo! Thank you.
Agreed....
Not sure what you are getting at. Do you think a pastor is only a pastor if he is sinless? Wow - that ain't in no bible!
1. Peter's role as shepherd of the whole Church does not depend upon any idea that Peter was sinless - and the Church nowhere claims that he was not a sinner.
2. Peter's role as shepherd of the whole Church does not depend upon any idea that every act of Peter's was infallible - and the Church nowhere claims that every act was infallible.
Your proof-texting is interesting, as proof-texting always is. But in no way undermines the historical record for 1500 years that all Christians considered the Church to be heirarchical, with Peter and his successors as the chief shepherd.
A very powerful piece. The effort to reduce the church to a social organization among the liberals is rendering their churches useless. If people just want a social organization, there are plenty of those that people can participate in and sleep in on Sunday mornings. These churches are increasingly standing for nothing, so there is becoming less and less of a reason for people to participate in them.
That's what I'm saying. Someone posted a list of churches that still had Latin Mass, however it was a pain in the neck trying to get there.
My mom taught CCD for a while, until Vatican II hit the fan. My folks took me out of Catholic school, and enrolled me in public school. Wish they hadn't. I would have gotten a better education if I had stayed put.
I hope the two of you will persevere the fools you encounter in order to honor the Lord with the worship He is due. Jesus thirsts for you, personally, to worship at the holy sacrifice of the Mass each week.
God will reward you richly for doing so. He always does.
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