Posted on 06/22/2006 8:43:39 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
Editor's note: On the evening of July 17, 1996, at 8:19 p.m., TWA Flight 800, a Boeing 747, took off from Kennedy Airport, bound for Paris. At 8:31 p.m., over 730 people watched Flight 800 explode, killing all 230 of the people aboard.
Not long afterwards, millions of Americans watched their televisions in fascinated horror as search and rescue crews looked for survivors among the flaming debris. Only dead bodies were recovered.
Flight 800 is mostly an ugly memory for people these days. The U.S. government issued an explanation that a fuel tank had somehow exploded. Yet, they flatly denied any evidence existed of foul play, including the possibility that Flight 800 had been blown out of the air by a missile.
All but a few journalists accepted the government's version of events. Few bothered to investigate the numerous eyewitnesses, the radar records and the physical evidence that all suggested a strikingly different explanation of Flight 800's untimely demise. And those few who did question the government's version were made to look like fools or, worse, thrown in jail and prosecuted as criminals for meddling in an official investigation.
What really happened to Flight 800? ....
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
"How can you argue with four government agencies?" Grassley asked.
While some critics had accused Boeing of quietly pushing a bomb-and-missile theory, the tests and court records reveal for the first time evidence that Boeing has actually refused to rule out a bomb or missile in the July 1996 TWA crash. Boeing's seemingly conflicting role - as a key participant in crash probes and a manufacturer fending off liability claims - was examined in a study of crash investigations by the Rand Corp., a California-based think tank. The study, commissioned by the NTSB and expected to be turned over to the safety board in the next two weeks, will propose an overhaul of crash investigations, according to people familiar with its findings. While still endorsing Boeing's participation in crash investigations, Rand is prepared to outline safeguards to prevent manufacturers from using their investigative role to slow or confuse crash investigations. In particular, Rand is expected to propose that manufacturers be kept at an arm's length from certain scientific studies to ensure the independence and integrity of investigations. Boeing engineers are again playing a critical role as the investigation into the fate of EgyptAir Flight 990, a Boeing 767 jetliner, gets under way in Rhode Island. The jet plummeted into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Nantucket, Mass., one week ago, killing all 217 aboard. At the same time last week, Boeing was continuing to pursue evidence of foul play in the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800 off Long Island, N.Y. Two years after the FBI and federal aviation investigators ruled out a bomb or missile in that crash, Boeing has refused to abandon the sabotage theory. Safety officials have concluded that the jet's center fuel tank exploded but have yet to identify the ignition source. On Wednesday, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, revealed a General Accounting Office (GAO) report showing that Boeing for three years failed to share with Flight 800 investigators a scientific study that could have helped determine the cause of the TWA crash. Boeing's refusal to eliminate a bomb or missile as a cause of that earlier crash is a strategy that appears to be coming largely from company attorneys, including those at the Seattle firm Perkins Coie, which is defending Boeing in a lawsuit filed by family members who lost loved ones in TWA Flight 800. While that case is pending, several other families have settled their cases. But the legal message also is being echoed by Boeing's top official, Chairman Phil Condit, who told The Seattle Times last week that the bomb-or-missile theory "is improbable at this point. But until you find a probable cause, you are never sure." Grassley, the Iowa senator who has been looking into the flaws in the investigation of Flight 800, said Boeing could be inviting ridicule by trying to disprove the NTSB, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and others who rejected bomb and missile theories. "How can you argue with four government agencies?" Grassley asked. "I don't think they enhance their own public relations if they continue to pursue the missile or bomb theory."
Again, my friend, CUSTODY of much of the crash scene material was confiscated by the FBI and NOT shared with the NTSB, what don't you understand about this?
Not quite Rokke, The NTSB is normally the lead organization in the investigation of a transportation accident within its sphere. However, this power can be surrendered to other organizations if the US Attorney General declares the case to be linked to an intentional criminal act.
Uh Rokke, do you see the "surrender" provision in the above clause......duh?
And I can't believe you came back. You were the guy who said way back in post #310 "Ouch! That sound you hear is Rokke's credibility flying out the window." and then when I asked you to explain you refused. I'm still waiting for you to explain what about the Iranian 747 explosion discredits anything I've said.
"Tell me, did Algore's movie clarify global warming for you?"
I haven't seen it, but from what I understand of it, it is full of exactly the same kind of unsubstantiated rumor and theory that makes up all the TWA 800 conspiracy stories. I prefer fact over fantasy.
Did you read the article you posted? It points out how Boeing withheld evidence from the accident investigation and that they did so based on pressure from their own attorneys. You want evidence of an attempted cover up? Maybe you just found it. Fortunately, wiser heads at Boeing prevailed.
I understand that you have no idea what you are talking about and that once again you are flat wrong. The NTSB/Boeing/TWA investigators had access to the 96% of the aircraft, which was all the wreckage recovered. Unless you think they all lied about that too.
Not quite what? You now don't believe the NTSB is a government agency? You think that if the FBI is given jurisdiction over an accident scene, the NTSB is no longer part of the government? Can you grasp any farther for straws?
"The NTSB is normally the lead organization in the investigation of a transportation accident within its sphere."
Heyyyyy. I can almost feel the Earth tremble as an amazing breakthrough happens. You are finally starting to realize there were two investigations involving TWA 800. One was a criminal investigation lead by the FBI. The other an accident investigation lead by the NTSB. The criminal investigation was initiated and received priority, because contrary to conspiracy theorists claims, the Clinton administration actually believed the incident was a criminal act, and spent millions trying to prove it was. But they failed. So after two years of fruitless investigation, the FBI withdrew and handed the whole thing over to the NTSB.
That would help wouldn't it. Instead, it is a lot more fun to develop an incredibly complex conspiracy involving multiple government and civilian agencies, the entire media, prestigious universities and the historical record. Logic is not very profitable. You can make millions selling a conspiracy.
I've have question for you, Flight 800 was used for medium loaded short hops, I beleive, and, because it is easier on the spars and airframe, no fuel is carried in the CFT.
This was summer, and many hours of prolonged ground running of the AC packs (below the CFT)had been logged.
Airline records should show when the aircraft last received fuel in that CFT.
The Caltech Explosive research points out high temperatures and CONSIDERABLE vaporizing of the JET A, both ON THE GROUND and ALOFT.
Do you (as I do ) find it could be feasable that ALL the residual fuel in the CFT could have boiled off prior to the incident?
Additionally, what evidence is there that it exploded, an FBI deputy was witnessed at Calverton hammering on 800's sheet metal, changing the contours.
The NTSB breakup analysis describes failure and rolling forward of span wise beams, how does this virtual cannon blast accomplish this with out affecting the large plastic water tank positioned directly in front of this blast vector?
Could the rolling and detachment of SWB's been caused by bending loads applied by aerodynamic breakup?
Parts were "pressure" washed to remove salt brine, this removes traces of evidence also.
You really need to read the NTSB investigation. It would answer so many of your questions. The TWA 800 aircraft flew long haul trips. A few hours prior to its last flight it had just flown in from Greece. Its CWT had been filled for that leg. It was on its way to Europe when it blew up.
"Additionally, what evidence is there that it exploded, an FBI deputy was witnessed at Calverton hammering on 800's sheet metal, changing the contours."
Read the report, and Boeing's submission to the report.
"Could the rolling and detachment of SWB's been caused by bending loads applied by aerodynamic breakup?"
No.
"Parts were "pressure" washed to remove salt brine, this removes traces of evidence also."
Gary or Army EOD might be better able to answer this, but pressure washing does not remove pitting and splatter evidence caused by an explosion. And it didn't remove sooting and charring on debris recovered from TWA 800.
The NTSB surrenders its AUTHORITY, it is still a goverment agency, but becomes a severely handicapped one when the over-riding agency (FBI/CIA) declares salient details or evidence as "off limits" to the investigation UNDER THE GUISE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.
Just because and entity (ie Depy of Ag)is a government agency, does not bring it the priviledge of access to items of national security....I think you would understand that?
Evidence which James Sander sand Terry Stacey was sent to jail for getting.
Evidence that can't be covered up.
Yes it can. It can disappear. And has.
But in the case of TWA 800, what you have is a body that's been badly mangled but reconstructed until it is 95% whole.
Because that's what they told you.
There is no evidence of anything resembling a shotgun blast to that body,
Again, that's their claim.
You are using the Clinton government conspirators "evidence" to clear them. They had control of everything and allowed no one outside their circle to view anything.Why was it so secret? And don't say because it was a criminal investigation. It wasn't a criminal act, remember.
Terry Stacey was inside the investigation and was suspicious of it. In an earlier post, you asked why people weren't coming forward. Stacey and Sanders were convicted of trying to prove the government to be lying. Eyewitnesses were labeled as being drunk. Nasir Aziz, a co-pilot, was told by the FBI that he saw a meteor. Evidence "lost", witnesses discredited in the "trailer park trash" Clinton style and truth seekers jailed.
Btw, this is interesting.
U.S. has conceded wrongdoing against Sanders
One cannot underestimate the impact of what has just transpired in James and Elizabeth Sanders' ongoing civil suit against the federal government and seven named individuals. The case number is federal EDNY, #01-CV-5447 JS.
The United States government has declined to respond to the Sanders' summary judgment motion – "Rule 56.1 Statement." Incredibly, by so declining, U.S. Attorney Kevin Cleary has conceded that the Sanders' 32 damning charges against his clients cannot be rebutted.
In so conceding, the Justice Department tacitly acknowledges that, yes, the TWA Flight 800 investigation has been corrupted and, no, we are not prepared to contest this fact.
I'd appreciate you not telling to me to re-read the NTSB report, it is not gospel, although you seem to hold this POS crafted by the Clinton Adminstration as a virtual bible of sorts.
The report does NOT reach a final conclusion, it is merely an assemblage of educated guesses and probabilities, plus the fact that classified peices of the puzzle are missing this very day, having now been incredibly LOST or stuck in FOIA limbo forever!
Tainted is the word here, with a capital T.
GAO Finds Boeing Did Not Withhold Fuel Tank Report
SEATTLE, Nov. 03, 1999 -- Congressional investigators say The Boeing Company did not intentionally withhold a 1980 study on fuel pump performance in the E-4B. The 19-year-old report on fuel tank heating in a military version of the Boeing 747 was prepared for the U.S. Air Force. "The General Accounting Office investigators found no evidence of a conspiracy on Boeing's part to withhold the study," Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, chairman of Judiciary subcommittee on administrative oversight, said Thursday. Boeing said the report was not given to National Transportation Safety Board investigators probing the 1996 TWA Flight 800 explosion because its civilian airliner division was unaware of the report prepared by the company's military unit. "That document was not withheld," Boeing Chairman and CEO Phil Condit said earlier this week. "It was a question of finding it. It was a document about fuel pump performance that in retrospect bears a resemblance but, by the way, has to do with a configuration that is entirely different (than a commercial 747) under a different use. It would not have changed the outcome of the investigation.' Company officials also dispute a charge by Sen. Grassely that it has established a "pattern of under-reporting" on safety issues.
The Congressional Research Service study says that MANPADS can reach 15,000 feet. It also said that the most vulnerable aircraft are those that take off over water and should have maritime craft patrolling the water.
What information did the NTSB ask for that they were ultimately denied by the FBI "under the guise of National Security"?
Typical Clinton MOA, demonize/destroy your opponent for political gain.
This was a classic Grassely whitewash, the hearing was about government wrong doing and inefficiency but turned into a good ole boys clan meeting and actually handing out trophy of acheivment awards to the conspirators, unbeleivable!
Again..DUH....I just GAVE you an example of the recently released FBI FOIA pdf regarding the "pellets" and other items of Wetli's autopsy......was this in your touted "bible" you keep refering Freepers to consult?
They were sent to jail for stealing evidence from a Federal crime scene. That is a felony. And are you suggesting that a missile whose motor burns out several seconds prior to hitting its target because is runs out of fuel, leaves a trail of what Sander's and Stacey theorize as being "rocket" fuel through an aircraft?
"Yes it can. It can disappear. And has."
What has? Specifically.
"Because that's what they told you."
And put on display to the public. Boeing and TWA are in full agreement on that point. Are they lying to you too?
"You are using the Clinton government conspirators "evidence" to clear them."
Boeing and TWA were part of the Clinton cabinet?
"Stacey and Sanders were convicted of trying to prove the government to be lying."
Baloney. They were convicted of a felony for stealing from a federal crime scene. Was the jury that convicted them also part of the Clinton conspiracy?
And your last link to an article in the WND written by Cashill is a bunch of nonsense. When the Federal Government refuses to respond to a nonsense civil suit it isn't admitting anything. You can believe a man who makes a living off of spinning his conspiracy yarns, or you can do your own research and discover the facts for yourself.
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