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The universe before it began
Seed Magazine ^ | 5/22/06 | Maggie Wittlin

Posted on 05/24/2006 3:59:24 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Scientists use quantum gravity to describe the universe before the Big Bang.

Scientists may finally have an answer to a "big" question: If the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe, what could have caused it to happen?

Using a theory called "loop quantum gravity," a group led by Penn State professor Abhay Ashtekar has shown that just before the Big Bang occurred, another universe very similar to ours may have been contracting. According to the group's findings, this previous universe eventually became so dense that a normally negligible repulsive component of the gravitational force overpowered the attractive component, causing the universe to "bounce" apart. This big bounce is what we now know as the Big Bang. The group published its analysis in the April 12th issue of Physical Review Letters.

"These equations tell us that in fact there is another pre-Big Bang branch of the universe, and then we tried to understand what it looks like," Ashtekar said. "[Surprisingly], the universe again looks very much classical.

"So there is another universe on the other side which is joined to our universe in a deterministic way," he concluded.

Coauthor Parampreet Singh, a postdoc at Penn State, said that Einstein's theory of general relativity describes the current universe very well, but it breaks down when it encounters the extreme density of the universe around the time of the Big Bang.

"[General relativity] gives physical singularities when we ask questions about the physics near the Big Bang," he said. "Unless this problem is solved, or unless a solution of this problem is known, we do not have a complete description of the universe."

Physicists have developed theoretical systems, such as string theory, to unite general relativity with quantum mechanics and explain the very early universe. In the late 1980s, Ashtekar published the first paper on loop quantum gravity, a theory which applies quantum mechanical principles to examine the spacetime continuum. According to his model, there is no continuum: Smooth, continuous space is only an approximation of an underlying quantized structure, one that is made up of discrete units.

Loop quantum gravity also predicts a small repulsive component of gravitational force, which is a non-factor in other theories. At most densities, even the extremely high density of an atom's nucleus, this component has no significant effect. But as density increases, approaching 1075 times the nuclear density, this repulsion begins to dominate. According to the Ashtekar's equations, this appears to be what happened to the universe before ours: As it collapsed, it became so dense that gravity started to, in a sense, work backwards, birthing our universe.

Singh, Ashtekar's postdoc, noted that the group's conclusions are eerily similar to findings published by Princeton researcher Paul Steinhardt two weeks ago. Using string theory, Steinhardt concluded that the universe may be cyclic, with each crunch leading to a bounce.

But Steinhardt said the two papers are only distantly related:

"It is an idealized set-up which does not connect smoothly to realistic cosmology," he said via e-mail about the Penn State paper. "By contrast, our scenario is designed so that it connects smoothly to Einstein gravity and standard Hubble expansion, so that it reproduces the astronomical conditions we observe today."

Ashtekar acknowledge that his work addresses the idealized situation of a homogeneous, isotropic universe, one that is uniform in space and uniform in all directions—the model does not account for heterogeneities such as galaxies.

"This picture does hold up in kind of simple generalizations," he said. "The key question is really if this prediction is going to hold up with more and more realistic models."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abhayashtekar; ashtekar; astronomy; bang; before; began; big; bigbang; bigbounce; bigcrunch; bounce; cosmology; crunch; cyclic; einstein; expansion; force; goddooditamen; gravitational; gravity; hubble; idealized; india; loop; ludditebait; mechanics; model; mybrainhurtsfromthis; nothingfromnothing; quantum; repulsive; space; string; stringtheory; theory; thumperbait; universe
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To: nothingnew
"Scientists" study things they claim are trillions of years old...and never come up with an answer, just postulation. As much proof as we can come up with for there being G-D.

Scientists aren't looking for God. They are looking for mechanical explanations for things. God, by definition (and His own words if you are of a Biblical Literary mind), defies proof.

Just because it is complicated and subject to new interpretations doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued.

41 posted on 05/24/2006 5:13:34 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death </Stewie>)
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To: LibWhacker
Since the "current" universe seems to be flying apart and showing no signs of an eventual contraction, what prevented the "prior" iteration from doing the same thing?
42 posted on 05/24/2006 5:14:41 PM PDT by Redcloak (Speak softly and wear a loud shirt.)
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To: GW and Twins Pawpaw
Probably not that many.
About the number of permutations
of a deck of 52 cards. (i.e. 52!)

I don't have handy the formula
that estimates factorials.

Anyway 10 to the 75 is way smaller than a googol.

43 posted on 05/24/2006 5:15:25 PM PDT by cliff630 (cliff630 (Didn't Pilate ask Christ, "What is the Truth." Even while looking in the face of TRUTH))
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To: GW and Twins Pawpaw
10 to the 75th is a lot of anything!!!!:-); Just about the same number of insignificant digits needed to statistically prove evolution!
44 posted on 05/24/2006 5:17:22 PM PDT by BillT
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To: LibWhacker
Einstein's space is curved by the presence of matter, and the volume of the universe is believed finite. Time looks straight, but not necessarily so, and our universe's future could be directly connected with its beginning.
45 posted on 05/24/2006 5:17:59 PM PDT by dr huer
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To: Gordongekko909
This implies Algore's head is going to explode as it is the densest substance imaginable.
46 posted on 05/24/2006 5:18:33 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer
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To: Publius6961

Do not question Scientific Dogma.The Inquisition is coming.


47 posted on 05/24/2006 5:18:36 PM PDT by heights
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To: LibWhacker
Ok, so now tell us where the other universe came from and how did it start? This doesn't answer any questions at all but makes more questions. This is a typical trick of scientists to make you think they have solved a big mystery when in reality they couldn't solve it so they made something up to give the illusion of solving it.

They did the same thing with the origin of life, it is impossible for it to have occured on earth the way they theorized so now "life came to earth on a meteor or some other rock from space" as if this explains it when in reality the same old question looms: How did life start?

48 posted on 05/24/2006 5:18:42 PM PDT by calex59 (No country can survive multiculturalism. Dual cultures don't mix, history has taught us that!)
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To: SauronOfMordor
This agrees with my theory:

Each of us has been reborn an infinite
number of times, Unfortunately, there is
no way to leave a trail.

49 posted on 05/24/2006 5:19:18 PM PDT by cliff630 (cliff630 (Didn't Pilate ask Christ, "What is the Truth." Even while looking in the face of TRUTH))
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To: LibWhacker

Personally, I think most of this stuff is mutual you-know-what by physicists. There are some things that just aren't knowable, and the Big Bang is one of 'em. If there even was such a thing. Unless you believe in G-d, the thought of something out of absolutely nothing is just not credible.


50 posted on 05/24/2006 5:20:30 PM PDT by rbg81
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To: cliff630

Cosmic Crumbs.


51 posted on 05/24/2006 5:20:34 PM PDT by heights
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To: cliff630
UH UH! should be a plex after googol.
a googol is 1 followed by 10 zeroes.
a googol plex is 1 followed by a googol of
of zeroes. Sorry........
52 posted on 05/24/2006 5:24:46 PM PDT by cliff630 (cliff630 (Didn't Pilate ask Christ, "What is the Truth." Even while looking in the face of TRUTH))
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To: cliff630
Probably not that many.
About the number of permutations
of a deck of 52 cards. (i.e. 52!)

Close enough for a CBO estimate of a new entitlement, 52! is a mere 8x 10^67

53 posted on 05/24/2006 5:25:38 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer
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To: nothingnew

Cue Elton John!


54 posted on 05/24/2006 5:37:48 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: dr huer
"...our universe's future could be directly connected with its beginning."

If that's the case, we've all been here before. And we will be here again, as Nietzsche predicted.

Oh. Nice to see you! Again.

55 posted on 05/24/2006 5:38:50 PM PDT by Reactionary (The Barking of the Native Moonbat is the Sound of Moral Nitwittery)
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To: Redcloak

Yeah, the Big Rip seems to be where we're headed. 'course, I don't claim to know anything about this stuff, I kinda just watch from the bleachers and follow as best I can.


56 posted on 05/24/2006 5:39:00 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: dr huer

So the universe that "came before" ours was ours?


57 posted on 05/24/2006 5:39:30 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: cliff630

Yeah, like, 25 orders of magnitude smaller. ^_^


58 posted on 05/24/2006 5:39:32 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: LibWhacker

This is not "the answer" it is just another theory without any proof!


59 posted on 05/24/2006 5:40:01 PM PDT by mountainlyons (Hard core conservative)
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To: mountainlyons

Hence the word "theory."


60 posted on 05/24/2006 5:40:59 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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