Gay and Lesbian Catholics Will Enter Catholic Cathedrals Nationally On Pentecost Sunday

Yahoo News ^ | May 23, 2006

[NYer]

CHICAGO, May 22 /PRNewswire/ -- The following statement was released today by the Rainbow Sash Movement (RSM). The RSM will respond to the fear and intolerance of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual Transgender (GLBT) persons, by many of our Catholic Bishops on Pentecost Sunday, June 4, 2006. We will be entering, with our straight allies, Catholic Cathedrals across the nation on Pentecost wearing Rainbow Sashes as a sign of identification. Some Bishops have welcomed us in the past, and we are thankful for their welcome.

Nationally our Bishops have lobbied against our human rights. Our grief is intensified because many in the GLBT Catholic Community feel alienated from the Church because of this assault on our human rights. We believe the Bishops have a serious obligation to root out structures and attitudes that discriminate against the homosexual as a person. A small number of courageous Bishops are exerting their leadership in behalf of this effort, and these Bishops will have our full support and prayers.

The Gospels reveal that, while Jesus did not hesitate to proclaim radical ethic of life grounded in the promise of God's kingdom, he never ceased to reach out to the lowly, to the outcasts of his time even if they did not live up to the full demands of his teaching. Jesus offered forgiveness and healing to all who sought it. And when some objected to this compassion, he responded: "Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw the stone,"(John 8:7)

We are followers of Jesus Christ, and Catholic. This is why members of the Rainbow Sash Movement will wear Rainbow Sashes on Pentecost Sunday. We see homophobia within the Church as both an opportunity for education, and a way to promote the idea of love of neighbor. We are calling for dialogue.

To find out more, and get involved with Rainbow Sash Movement please visit our Web site at http://www.rainbowsashmovement.com, or email: Sashmovement@AOL.Com

[AnAmericanMother]

Actually the koine Greek was the lingua franca of the eastern Mediterranean in Jesus's day, so he almost certainly spoke Greek. As did the apostles and evangelists.

Changed for political reasons? you must have read right over the part of my post that pointed out that we have original Gospel texts that are almost contemporaneous and complete. The DaVinci Code idea that Constantine made the whole thing up in the 4th century and decreed the contents of the Bible at that time is hogwash and completely unsupported by anything other than wishful thinking.

And while I don't speak Aramaic, there are several Eastern Catholic churches that still conduct the liturgy in Aramaic . . . and again, any hope that the core beliefs were somehow changed when Mark (who was Peter's secretary) or Luke (who was Paul's) wrote them down is just wishful thinking.

Certainly you are free to believe whatever you want to - it IS a free country and you are personally responsible for your own salvation.

But what you cannot do is claim that whatever you want to believe is in any way supported by the New Testament, or early Christianity, or the sayings of Jesus. That borders on false advertising.

[AnAmericanMother]

Almost everyone's younger than me, too. And getting younger by the minute, it seems. < g > But, as my dear old uncle Osgood used to say, "Consider the alternative!"

[HamiltonJay]

Indeed and you are free to believe whatever you want to, too. And yes, I believe that God is Love. I am sorry that you don't.

I am sorry too... that you are so unapologetically ignorant of the text the Lord has given us.

There is no doubt God loves us, but to try to distill Judeo Christian Theology and all that in entails into "God is Love" is flatly and patently ignorant and wrong. Practicing faith is not saying... "Oh, God is Love.. I am free to do whatever, he made me this way and he loves me so I'll do whatever I wish."... Faith is saying, "I love God, and I love him so much that I will do my best to live in the manner in which he has put forth for me."

None of us have ever pulled it off without failing, but that doesn't mean one gets a free pass not to bother even trying. God will forgive the truly repentent.. but those that echo the "God is Love" line always seem to forget that with his forgiveness is require repentance and also to "Go and Sin No More".

Homosexuality is clearly immorral according to the teachings of the bible, scientific studies on the topic show it to be a largely self destructive mental disorder.. so whether it be Theological "sin" or purely pragmatic "secular humanism" there is no justification for Homosexuality as anything more than A BEHAVIOR. And its a behavior that has hugely negative consequences for those who embrace it.. and sadly many that embrace it also fall further into the immorallity pit in all sorts of ways.

Its no fluke that 90% of boys who are molested are molested by unrelated men... Once you absolve oneself of responsibility for ones actions regarding ones sexual urges and actions, its only a matter of time until the next evil urge crops up, and is yeilded to.

And lets not even get into the fact that most who voluntarily engage in this lifestyle, not molested as children, but upon become sexually mature decide to become active with other men generally became drunk or stoned in order to be able to do the deed... does not bode for a behavior that is inate.

There is no reason to beat a dead horse any further. To try to drive by theology as "God is Love" is just patent ignorance... Get into a good bible study program, in a church that actually teaches the Bible... not selective passages. You'll find out quite quickly "God is Love" is nothing more than drivel of the ignorant mind.

[dcnd9]

Bottom line, they do a great disservice to young people with sames sex attraction in telling them the lies they espouse as opposed to the truth....that the abnormal feelings they are experiencing can, and should, be overcome.... not succumbed to as the homosexuals have brainwashed society into believing. As Christ said..... they will be responsible, and punished, for harming these little ones with their lies.

[Sunsong]

God is MORE than Love. He is Love, but He is also Holy. Perhaps you think that God's Love means that He will not condemn man's sin, but if that is the case then there is no reason for Jesus to have died for our sins. If there was no reason for Jesus to have died for our sins, then He would not be God's son, because there would be no reason for God to send His son to us. If Jesus was not God's son, then there is no reason to pay any attention to His teaching, because he was clearly a lunatic -- claiming to be one with the Father, claiming He would rise from the dead, etc.

What is more than Love? I would say that Holiness is part of Love. That Love is Holy. I also think that there is no condemnation or attack in Holiness. I think we will disagree on this as well(g). But I do like logic and so I'll give you my perspective on your reasoning here.

Perhaps you think that God's Love means that He will not condemn man's sin, but if that is the case then there is no reason for Jesus to have died for our sins.

I think that God loves us beyond what we can imagine or comprehend at this time. I think that God wants us to love Him and to love one another. I think that God does not want us to condemn each other but to love each other and help each other. I think that Jesus was crucified because He was sinless and perfectly loving and that the people of the time could not stand that...because they were too enthralled with condemnation and attack to understand a love like Jesus'. Clearly Jesus harmed no one and healed many and was crucified for that and for saying that He was the Son of God. But I look to the resurrection rather than the crucifiction as the heart of Jesus' message. Jesus, through God within Him - overcame all - even death. And for that reason, imo, He has the *right* to ask people to listen to Him(g).

I look to the resurrection not the crucifiction as the crux of the lesson there. That even in the most extreme case - Love overcomes. Jesus has taught us that Love is the most important thing of all and that not even crucifiction kills Love for it is eternal.

[FJ290]

Well there is a hard question. I don't know why(g). But I know that here in Utah people want the Mormon Church to change as well. And the Mormon Church did change. It used to be that blacks could not hold the preisthood and now they can. So my guess is that, as with other issues, the homosexuals want change. I think that there plenty of adulterers in church(g) - think of Clinton, Kennedy etc . And if we include all sin - there are multitudes of sinners in church - right(g)? It will be interesting to see what happens.

Sure the Church has sinners in it, but that doesn't mean that those sins should be openly flaunted in the Church. I don't recall reports of Kennedy dragging Marilyn Monroe to Mass with him or Clinton taking Monica to the church in D.C.

I know you don't think St. Paul is God as you stated in a previous post, but he was chosen by God to be His spokesperson. He said that the effeminate and liers with mankind wouldn't possess the kingdom on God. He then tells the church at Corinth that some of them WERE, but that they had now been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of Jesus Christ. Homosexuals aren't suppose to continue in that behavior.

[RobbyS]

However, the letters of Paul were composed in Greek, and that he condemned homosexuality is perfectly clear.

But let us go back to Jesus. Yes, he PROBABLY spoke Aramaic, because that was the normal language of most of his hearers, and his mission was to the plain people, not the Greeks who lived in Palestine. However, it is possible he spoke Greek since Nazareth was a village on the outskirts of a Greek city, and in John it is recorded that some Greeks (maybe Greek-speaking Jews) wished to be introduced to him. We must not forget that Palestine had been under Greek influence since Alexander conquered Persia. Over the years many Jews adopted Hellenism. The Maccabees rebellion was a reaction against the imposition of Hellenism on the Jews by the Syrian (Greek) ruler. But Palestine was bilingual as was the early Church.

Anyway, it is conceded even by homosexual apologists that Jewish culture was
"homophobic." because homosexuality was part and parcel of the paganism of their neighbors. During the time of the first temple, religious reforms took the form of expelling temple (male and female) Prostitutes as well as the idols associated with their gods. One of the actions of the Maccabees once they gained control of Jerusalem was to shut the gymnasiums frequented by Hellenizing Jews because they were characterized by open homosexuality. (Students there exercised in the nude' women not welcome). There is no evidence that Jesus did not share the prejudices of his countrymen against Greek culture )Again, he did not preach to them).

[Sunsong]

God is certainly Love and all of the Love that there is.

But Love is not the pitying, excusing, weak emotion that says, "aw. . . sure, go ahead. I love you anyway." That, as C.S. Lewis said, has cheated many a statesman out of his honor and many a woman out of her virginity.

I agree. Love sometimes says *no*. And I agree that Love is not weak - being God - who is all-powerful. No I do not think that Love excuses attack or condemnation of others.

The problem (for us) with God being Love is that he is also Good - all the Good that there is. And sin cannot exist in the presence of Absolute Good - it shrivels up and burns away. In other words, God does not really condemn the sinner - the sinner and his sin condemn themselves, because they cannot exist in God's presence.

I completely agree with this. I would add that Love is good. That is part of what Love is and not separate from It. Sin cannot exist in the Presence of God. And I agree that the sinner condemns himself. I would go further and say that condemnation and attack could not exist in the Presence of God. And that is why it is *good* and right for each of us to work to eliminate them within ourselves now.

I do not believe the passage about Jesus in the Temple is correct. I do not believe that Jesus got angry (in fact I don't even think it says that He did). I think that Jesus taught just what you have said that in essence the sinner will condemn himself and could not exist in the Presence of God. So, for me, that is enough. If I want to be with God - then I know what to do - love God and love my neighbor and love my enemy. They are extremely hard things for me to do ( or at least I tell myself that it is hard) - but I am not asked to attack or condemn anyone. I am asked to love them and forgive them. That is how I see it.

Again, that does not mean that I think that those who break the law should not be arrested and prosecuted and jailed if that is what is called for. I am saying that it is not for me to condemn them or attack them.

[dcnd9]

As I said before you seemed very confused in your beliefs.

Love is the greatest but NOT the only thing!

[longtermmemmory]

The new testament was written in Greek.

It is the same text used in Greek Orthodox Churches every sunday.

The first writings were done in Greek by one of the apostles/deciples because that was the laguage of the educated.

What we have today is the homosexual lobby trying to alter the translations. By that lack of logic, the ten commandments become the ten suggestions.

[Sunsong]

But what you cannot do is claim that whatever you want to believe is in any way supported by the New Testament, or early Christianity, or the sayings of Jesus. That borders on false advertising.

Of course I can say that. There are things in Matthew Mark and Luke that support what I believe. There I said it(g). I do not believe - even if you do - that the Bible was translated correctly - nor do I believe that the disciples even understood much of what Jesus' taught and so even those things that are translated correctly aren't necessarily what Jesus taught.

And yes, I think that parts of the Bible were changed over the years for politcal reasons...your *proof* notwithstanding.

[VRWCmember]

I look to the resurrection not the crucifiction as the crux of the lesson there. That even in the most extreme case - Love overcomes. Jesus has taught us that Love is the most important thing of all and that not even crucifiction kills Love for it is eternal.

Wow. The resurrection is indeed victory over death and sin, but without the atonement in Jesus' death even the resurrection is meaningless. I have no idea how you came up with which parts of Scripture you would choose to accept and which ones you would toss out. The Resurrection proves Christ's divinity and the veracity of His message. God's love is beyond comprehension, but that does not mean that His word that outlines and describes that love is full of lies. In one of your earlier posts, you cited Jesus' words "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Do you reject His subsequent words to the adultress "Go and sin no more"?

If you choose to gamble your eternal soul on the notion that "God is Love so he won't condemn my sin" then you do so at your own peril. Jesus paid for your sin, but it appears that you think He just died because the people didn't understand and couldn't stand Him for His holiness, and somehow believe that there was no need for anyone to pay the price for your sin. If that is the case, I believe you are going to be very surprised when you finally meet Him face to face. (I think we will disagree on this, but on that day Jesus will not really be very concerned with either your opinion or mine on the matter -- only with the Truth that He has revealed in His Word and what was your response to that Truth.)

[longtermmemmory]

the homosexuals are pushing "god is ONLY love" nothing else.

Thus for the fat person who loves to eat, god is food.

for the drug addict who loves to get high, god is drugs.


the god is only love is for the illiterate who have never read a bible or classical literature.

[Sunsong]

You are free to believe whatever you want to. As am I. I happen to believe that God is Love. You don't. So what?

I also believe that people are responsble for their actions. And I believe that it is desirable to be honest, honorable, trustworthy, to have character and integrity, to do good works, to help others, to have courage, to be kind, to have a sense of humor.

All those things are part of what Love is, imo. and , of course, much more. Love is beyond what we can understand or define as humans. We can seek to be more loving, though, and to love God more and love one another more.

[dcnd9]

The modern gospel of relativism is totally false. It is evil, and it leads people to tolerate evil and to do evil. It is the kind of thing that Paul was speaking of when he wrote, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ" (Colossians 2:8). J. Morrison

[dcnd9]

The modern gospel of relativism is totally false. It is evil, and it leads people to tolerate evil and to do evil. It is the kind of thing that Paul was speaking of when he wrote, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ" (Colossians 2:8). J. Morrison

[VRWCmember]

There are things in Matthew Mark and Luke that support what I believe.

And the things in Matthew Mark and Luke that contradict what you believe you will choose to ignore, right? And where Jesus quotes OT passages in M, M, and L that do not support what you believe, you will choose to believe that either (1) the disciples misunderstood, or (2) they were translated incorrectly, or (3) they were changed for other reasons. And even though Jesus was powerful enough to overcome death by the power of his own supernatural essence of LOVE, he was either incapable of or didn't care enough to preserve the integrity of His teaching in what the disciples wrote.

I do not believe - even if you do - that the Bible was translated correctly - nor do I believe that the disciples even understood much of what Jesus' taught and so even those things that are translated correctly aren't necessarily what Jesus taught.

But fortunately, you are insightful enough based on your transcendent understanding that "God is LOVE" to discern which parts of the Bible were translated correctly and/or which parts can be discarded.

And yes, I think that parts of the Bible were changed over the years for politcal reasons...your *proof* notwithstanding.

Because you through your incredible insight and discernment can understand that certain parts were changed even though you have not seen any documentary indication of what was changed, nor what it said before it was changed.

[Sunsong]

Sure the Church has sinners in it, but that doesn't mean that those sins should be openly flaunted in the Church. I don't recall reports of Kennedy dragging Marilyn Monroe to Mass with him or Clinton taking Monica to the church in D.C.

Well Clinton? I think he as much as flaunted it. And what about Teddy Kennedy? If everyone *knows* he is certainly not too worried about it , is he. But regardless, you get the point. Lots of people flaunt their sins. Jeez think of MArdi Gras - think of Las Vegas.

I know you don't think St. Paul is God as you stated in a previous post, but he was chosen by God to be His spokesperson.

No I don't see Paul as God's spokesperson. I see him, though, as someone that others can learn from as they understand his struggles and realize that they can learn from them. He said some beautiful things. I especially like those that have to do with the mind and having a loving and grateful state of mind.

[dcnd9]

I see you as one lost soul caught up in the evil of relativism.

[warsaw44]

You expect me to sit quietly while a group of activists terrorizes the elderly men and women of my church? Threatens to harm a priest?
Possibly you haven't heard but some of these so called protests in the House of God have gotten well out of hand with gays throwing condoms at parishioners and priests.
The modern world can be quite confusing, lonely and terrifying to many elderly people. One of the few places they do not encounter this is at church - and you think I should just sit there and let it happen. Who the hell gave ANYONE the right to break up a church service of any denomination? And don't even try to call it freedom of speech. Don't even bother me with trying to justify such a thing. This has nothing to do with hatred and everything to do decency and respect.
Just as I have no problem coming to the aid of person being mugged or anyone else who calls for help you can bet I'll not allow anyone within my parish to be threatened or harmed.