No, THAT is the key ingredient missing here!
Posted on 05/17/2006 7:47:58 AM PDT by Pukin Dog
Edited on 05/17/2006 8:30:59 AM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." – Abraham Lincoln, 1858
It is getting somewhat strange around these parts when not only the President, but yesterday the First Lady was personally attacked by someone claiming to be a ‘Conservative’. Can there be any doubt that there are forces among us looking to drive a wedge between us?
A few weeks ago, this forum’s owner attempted to remind all of us of the big picture, that regardless of any personal animosity towards the President or Republican Party over their adherence to Conservative principles, that they are still a clear choice over the alternative Democrat Party rule. At that time, I assumed that FReeper-sanity had been restored, and that some of the negative rhetoric aimed at those in Washington D.C. would be dialed back.
Free Republic is a political forum with a proud history and vision, responsible for dragging Dan Rather from his post, and providing countless radio-talk shows with their daily talking points. FReepers are unique in their determination and energy towards protecting and defending the goals of our Founding Fathers.
We are also quite a powder keg of emotion and anticipation, expecting our Republican majorities to take advantage of this opportunity to make permanent gains in our Conservative agenda. Some might argue that this opportunity has been squandered, but those persons would be ignorant of history, lacking understanding that change cannot occur overnight in Washington, and that this is the way our Founders designed our Republic.
In frustration, impatience, and ignorance, we have allowed this forum to become a haven for those who do not share our Conservative goals. I do not blame our enemies anymore then I would blame a scorpion for stinging me. If anger and stupidity were one’s nature, I would expect the trolls that infect this forum to be angry and stupid consistently, which also makes them somewhat easy to detect.
The trolls are not the problem, though. The problem is that so many of us are allowing ourselves to be taken in by those who seek only to prevent us from going to the polls in November to keep their stinking hands off our government for another term. There can be no doubt, that no matter how disappointing our current government has been in promoting the Conservative agenda, that the alternative, enabled by our staying home will be MUCH worse.
The way to deal with Republicans who have actively worked against our goals is to defeat them in Primary elections. We do not even have to defeat them all, only enough of them to send the message that we will indeed target them if they work against our agenda. It should be the goal of EVERY conservative to see that Lincoln Chaffee is defeated in November. His seat is one we can afford to lose. Were I a Rhode Island resident, I would vote for the Democrat if only to send a message to Snowe, Hagel, Collins, Graham, and especially that bastard Specter that their primaries just got a lot tougher.
We only need to get one of them, and Chaffee is the one to get. It does not really matter if a Democrat takes his seat; he will be junior and mute as long as we maintain our overall majority in the Senate.
The one thing that bothers me here like nothing else, is the simple disrespect of the President. Am I am Bush-Bot? Damn straight I am. If you want to know why, click on my handle to read Southack’s excellent list of Bush’s accomplishments in office. But if Bush had done almost nothing in office, it would be no excuse for some of the slights and disrespect he has received from some of us on this forum.
Some of the things I have read here this past week match in tone what one can find on our favorite Democrat sewer site. Someone calling himself or herself a FReeper was promoting shooting aliens at the border until they stopped coming. Is that what we are about? Obviously not, and that so-called Conservative has been eliminated from this forum.
I think it is important to remember that you and I have just as much responsibility as George Bush does in changing our culture to better reflect Conservative values. Right now, this very moment, Conservatives have the government they deserve. We put them there. They are not our mommies and daddies sent out to bring home our Conservative bread. That responsibility lies with all of us. These Republicans represent us, they don’t serve us. Our job is to pick the best individual and send him/her to Washington in the hope that their CHARACTER will see them through.
This is why it is such a nutty thing to consider punishing the Republican party, when we should be letting them know that we’ve got their back, but if they cant do the job, we will replace them with ANOTHER Republican, instead of handing the reigns of government to the party of anger, hopelessness and despair. We sometimes like to think that those people we send to Washington are different from us, that they are capable of meeting our every need and desire.
I want every one of you to think about what you would consider to be your perfect mate. Maybe some of you think you have found that person. If you are married and totally in love with another person, that is great. Now I want to ask you to think about the last time that person you love, who is PERFECT for you, completely pissed you off. Remember, this is your perfect mate, your one true love. Do they do everything you want them to do? Obey your every desire? If you answer yes, I am going to put you on my troll list.
Those people in Washington do not even cut your lawn, yet you expect perfection. Get over it.
I am issuing a challenge to every person who considers him or her to be a Conservative; why don’t we all commit to a return to HONOR? Do we honor our Conservative agenda when we comport ourselves in disgraceful ways? Is it an honorable thing to suggest that our President is a moron, as I read here a few days ago? Is it honorable to attack Laura Bush or any other person representing true Conservative values?
Some of you might argue that George Bush is not representing Conservative values to your liking. I would remind you that the first thing Bush said upon taking office, is that he was going to be President of ALL the people, not just some. You know that if you followed Bush from the beginning that he campaigned of the very immigration platform he is defending right now. Did you vote for him? Yeah?
If you have ever had a steak at a Ruth’s Chris restaurant, you know that sometimes they bring that wonderful steak to your table with a sprig of parsley on it. I hate parsley. Hate it. If I were to treat my steak the way some of us want to treat our President, I would have to throw out the steak, due to that nasty parsley that comes with it. I can deal with the parsley to get the steak, and that is what I am asking FReepers to do.
Expecting perfection from any person, group or team is a recipe for disaster. George W. Bush is my president. You can disagree with him, you can blame him for your problems if that is your desire. If you disrespect his office, his service, his risking his life to be with our troops in Iraq, his steadfast desire to bring a new tone to Washington, or if you just like the way he keeps Democrats so pissed off they lose their minds on a regular basis, I ask you to treat him and his wife with respect and cut the personal attacks. If you call him ‘Shrub’ or ‘Jorge’ consider yourself my enemy.
Right now, our real enemy are the Main Stream Media, the Democrat Party, and all who follow and support them. If you want to jump-ugly on someone, why not start with those leaky bastards and give our side a break?
Do it for Pukin.
I knew that you could.
"It was all the fault of the Perot voters."
Most of the Perot voters would have voted for Bush if he hadn't raised taxes. That was the key betrayal that was unforgiveable. He lied to them, and they retaliated.
Now, W hasn't lied to anybody. His Monday night speech was a rehash of where he has always stood, just presented in gussied-up and misleading language to try and make it look like something new. The President is honest about where he stands, but where he stands can't win. He was honest about his support for Miers too, but Miers was a bridge too far for the pro-lifers. In the end, the President had to back down in order to save the unity of the party. And in the Miers case, he did.
Here, the President doesn't really have the lead. He could have taken the lead on Monday night, but he repackaged amnesty and stepped-up weak enforcement of the Mexican border. So, the issue reposes in Congress. The House Republicans want heavy enforcement first. The Senate Republicans are split, with the leaders proposing guest worker and not proposing a full sealing of the border.
The two are far apart.
The President clearly will not change his position an inch, so leadership has to come from Congress.
So, will the Senate cave and agree to House-style enforcement?
I really don't think they will, but they might, and if they do, the President probably won't veto it. If that happens, the BorderBots will come back and the GOP will win this November.
Any other result, though - either a House capitulation to the Senate or status quo (which is an uncontrolled border and no effective enforcement) - and the BorderBots don't come back, we lose, and we have to put the party back together next year.
What is it with people like you who tell people something they posted was wrong, and then deny they ever said any such thing. I am going to repeat here exactly what led to my last post to you and I want you to explain to me what your intent actually was when you posted to me...
Here is your post 2233...
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To: Rokke "Yet you seem to honestly believe 200,000,000 immigrants will arrive here in 25 years. Wow."
And you sir, conveniently brush aside the historical reality, and the repeated explanation that Ireland contributed 10 times her own population to the United States over time.
Repeating the straw man statement after being corrected can only have one or two explanations.
2,233 posted on 05/17/2006 8:08:55 PM MDT by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country) ___________________________________________________________
Now based on that, is it reasonable for me to assume that you do not agree with my discounting the 200,000,000 number, and that you actually try to provide historical precedent to support it. Then you admonish me further about repeating "straw men" despite being "corrected" in this matter. I mean, clearly you are telling me my discounting the 200,000,000 number is wrong. So I respond in post 2240 with the following....
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To: Publius6961 "And you sir, conveniently brush aside the historical reality, and the repeated explanation that Ireland contributed 10 times her own population to the United States over time."
Um hmmm....well let me pen you down as one more person who believes that Mexico will soon double its current population and every last one of them will pack their bags and come up north.
Next...
2,240 posted on 05/17/2006 8:16:31 PM MDT by Rokke __________________________________________________________
After which you accuse me of making things up about what you said. So tell me...do you or do you not believe the 200,000,000 number is accurate?
I'd still like to know why there was no anger with Slick over the borders.
Amen
"I'd still like to know why there was no anger with Slick over the borders"
He was a Democrat.
Democrats like open borders.
Hispanics are the demographic salvation of the Democratic Party, and Democrats know it, so of course they are not going to be all over their President about an issue that they think is good for them in the long run.
Business Republicans like open borders because they provide cheap labor that is not protected by the US legal system. So there wouldn't be any grousing about the borders from them.
That leaves conservative Republicans. Many of them DID complain about the illegal flood, but the focus became the Clinton impeachment over perjury, so everything else took a back seat.
The borders issue only counts with Border Conservatives, who are a key element of the Republican base. Democrats aren't going to go after their leaders for border non-enforcement, because they either don't care, or see that, strategically, Latinos are the future majority-makers for the Democrats.
That's why.
Another assumption I'll question is that the Dem rank-and-file want amnesty. I'd really like to see some polling on this. I know LOTS of Dems (old yella-dog TN types) why HATE the amnesty idea and think THEIR leaders are selling them up th globalist river. Most of the ones I know are Lou Dobbs loving union tradesmen. The others don't like the amnesty idea either. They might find a wall or the NG "harsh" in their liberal speak, but in no way do they want a guest-worker program or amnesty. I really dont' thnk there's much popular support for it at all, either party.
If they ram it through, there may be an upheaval in this country like we've not seen since the civil war. I think the revolt will be in far more than just the republican party.
And you keep plugging the holes. We need comprehensize security, and if the GOP wasn't going so bonkers for earmarks, we could pay for it.
But tell me - if you have two holes in your boat the size of nickles, and one the size of a dinner plate, which one do you fix first?
And once again, what is missing IMO is the actual desire to have border security work.
A true desire in the federal government will not make it work, unless it is coupled with true desires on the part of state governments AND municipalities to see that it does work AND a true desire on the part of American citizens to see that it does work.
That's the crux of the problem. I know you're a smart and reasonable poster, but all this inter-conservative bickering will prevent ANY solutions from being implimented.
The problem is, what Bush is proposing with his guest worker agenda is not a solution - it will make the problem worse. NO BILL is better than a bad bill.
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I don't support that, in the event that anyone is listening. It wouldn't increase the likelihood of a mod being more objective, but it would likely result in some serious backlash from some members toward the mods.
I guess I question the assumption that an objective mod is desirable on a board such as this.
And it's telling that even a New York pubbie won't go along with Bush on this issue.
Bush's only way to get his agenda passed is to have almost total Dem support along with a few RINOs. THAT ALONE should send a message to those defending Bush on this matter - they are on the wrong side of the issue. And they need to quit yelling at the border security folks and instead yell at Bush to drop the guest worker/amnesty agenda until we have improved border security.
How about neutral and fair....
and respectful.
Oh, I don't think the connection should be made between a moderator and his/her actual screen name. But a mod can always clock out from mod duty and log back in under their screen name.
Then point me to an example. A quote. I want context. Not Howard Dean talking points.
Next point, do you notice the wide disparity between 1 million and 200 million. Do you really put much credence in such an estimate? If someone told you your dinner was going to cost $1 or $200 would you not question their calculations? I mean, I'd want to know what how much I was going to be forking over before I started eating.
"or maybe you'd just like a Illegally founded Mexican plurality in this nation. I sure don't and if that puts me at odds with you or this forum then so be it."
Someone earlier was commenting on straw men. Your rhetoric here is a perfect example.
"What I can't figure out is how much you guys support amnesty or just support anything Bush does?...blindly and justify it as pragmatism or loyalty"
And what I can't figure out is why you are willing to give everything away because you believe illegals are getting amnesty. There hasn't even been a bill worked out, nevermind voted on. And you are throwing out white flags like a French man. Why are you so eager to quit? Do you realize there is a LOT more at stake here than a problem we've been living with for decades?
"I know two of you and realize that two of ya'll are at least not Minority FReepers clamouring for the demise of the gringo..."
What in the world does that mean?
Yep! You know, Vice President Cheney finds it very difficult, I think, to resist gay orthrodoxy on marriage, civil unions and the like. This is understandable given that his daughter feels she has a personal stake in the issue. Were Dick Cheney to disagree with her, would she consider him to be a bigot? I don't know, but I doubt it's anything a father would feel comfortable about risking.
President Bush's nephew, George P. Bush, also feels he has a personal stake in an issue--- namely this issue of Mexican illegal immigration. I wonder how much President Bush mught have been influenced by George P. or George P.'s mother? It would be easy to agree with Mary Cheney or George P.'s mother (or perhaps Jeb) on either issue, respectively, so as to avoid any chance of being thought of as a bigot... especially if this was done before George W. Bush or Dick Cheney were elected to offices where policies on these issues mattered. Then, by the time they did reach such offices, their opinions on said issues might have hardened.
Just my bit two cent psycho analysis! Shelby Steele thinks this sort of dynamic governs a lot of minority/ racial issues (like Affirmative Action)--- the majority grants inncoence/moral authority in the form of victimhood to the minority, while the minority provides innocence to the majority by allowing the majority member to not think of himself or be thought of as a bigot.
>>Take careful notice also of clusters of posts by very old Freeper names who otherwise almost never post with throw away responses to one another, like "I totally agree with that".
Not terribly useful or controversial, but always makes me go, "Hmmmmmmmmm".<<
Why didn't I think of that ...all these times I've been alone on an issue and here I could have had a chorus of support.
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