Posted on 04/08/2006 7:32:33 PM PDT by Heartofsong83
Faith and the left New Democrats pushing for a faith caucus say their spiritual life underpins their commitment to social action Apr. 8, 2006. 10:02 AM STUART LAIDLAW FAITH AND ETHICS REPORTER
OTTAWA—Sitting in a fair trade coffee shop a few blocks from Parliament Hill, Christopher Duncanson-Hales does something few on the left have dared.
He speaks openly about how his faith brought him to both social activism and politics.
"It's the idea that you are there for something bigger than yourself," he says.
Duncanson-Hales, president of the Carlton-Mississippi Mills New Democratic Party riding association in Ottawa, is a leader in a movement to bring faith more into the party's mainstream.
He knows there are others like him — in his riding association, across the party and sitting in Parliament. To accommodate them, Duncanson-Hales' riding association is sponsoring a resolution to the New Democrats' policy meeting next month to set up a faith and social justice caucus.
The move has sparked a heated debate within the NDP and highlighted some strong divisions between those who come to activism through their faith and those who count religions among the problems they are trying to address.
Long-time party activist Tarek Fatah has gone so far as to say he might quit if the NDP goes too far in formalizing ties to religion, particularly groups with conservative views on homosexuality or the role of women.
(Excerpt) Read more at thestar.com ...
one for the pinglist!
The left has faith? Certainly not spiritual, their slogan is "Trust in Money".
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
Okay, so the left has to pretend to be "religous" to neutralize those who actually believe the Bible and the principles and commandments in it.
With the new "religous" lefties on the scene they shouldn't have to concern themselves with anything in the Bible actually being implemented into public policy. The new leftist religiosity is all make-believe and play-acting you know, to get votes and marginalize the fundies.
The left can play at being Christian just as well as they play at "supporting the troops". But only one problem- they will show themselves by their works- just like Jesus said.
"Long-time party activist Tarek Fatah has gone so far as to say he might quit if the NDP goes too far in formalizing ties to religion, particularly groups with conservative views on homosexuality or the role of women."
Looks like the NDP could do Canada a favour and fragment.
That's what those far-left extremists are asking for.
I can definitely tolerate the traditional-left wing of the NDP (which has in large part moved to the Conservatives nowadays). But they were the first party to move to the urban-yuppie left which is socially destructive (the Liberals have since followed).
What amazes me is that I have heard Canadian Liberals referring to the Liberal Party as the party of the centre. By our standards it is so far to the left that it has fallen off the cliff into the sea.
I think Canada's Liberal Party == Australian Labor Party Left, while New Democratic Party == Democratic Party of Australia and Australian Green Party
Sites such as http://www.greenleft.org.au which are affiliated with the Greens in Australia sings praises to Canadian New Democratic Party.
Most ALP state branches would be probably well to the right of the Canadian Liberal Party. At a national level the likes of Beasley and Rudd identify with the Christian religion. I think Australia is a long way from accepting gay marriages and as for the gay pride march in Toronto, it would bring the police out in large numbers. The Greens and the Democrats seem pretty much a thing of the past. Meg Lees, the former leader of the Democrats, said that one of the problems for the party was that it was infiltrated by groups such as the gay rights movement. Hopefully, the left, whether they are in Australia, Canada, the US, New Zealand or elsewhere, are on the way out.
Some commentary on Australian politics that is good for a laugh if the link works:
http://media.theaustralian.news.com.au/060402-team_player.htm
But what the h---, I'll do it anyway, just this once.
Okay, so the left has to pretend to be "religous" to neutralize those who actually believe the Bible and the principles and commandments in it.
With the new "religous" lefties on the scene they shouldn't have to concern themselves with anything in the Bible actually being implemented into public policy. The new leftist religiosity is all make-believe and play-acting you know, to get votes and marginalize the fundies.
The left can play at being Christian just as well as they play at "supporting the troops". But only one problem- they will show themselves by their works- just like Jesus said.
Giovanna,
I must take exception to your characterization of me. I am a Christian 'leftie' and I don't play-act my committment to Christ or to the Social Gospel. I am baptised and live out my committment to Christ in my family, my church, my community and the world. My faith informs and sustains my politics, which I believe will show themselves by their works. I am not just a pew-warming Christian, I am also a student of theology. I met my wife at divinity school, and am currently continuing to nurture my faith through education, while my wife pastor's to a rural congregation in Eastern Ontario. On Sunday, I worship with my fellow Christians, some are 'fundies' others are not, but we all come together to share in the joy of Easter and the risen Christ. We are a Christian family, a family of love and forgiveness. So, rather than mocking me, perhaps you should try to understand me. You might start by considering the words of Jesus, the words that have inspired my committment to social democracy,
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' 40 And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45 Then he will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Mt 25: 35-46)
Peace,
Chris D-Hales
Do we do it through socialism, man-centered, God-denying, Christ-hating, philosophy? A soul-destroying philosophy that gives birth to tragic generational dependance on government, a philosophy that crushes individual freedom, a philosophy that enslaves those imprisoned in countries with socialistic governments? A philosophy that, in every single issue stands in direct opposition to the Word of God?
Go back to 2 Timothy 3:5: "Having a form of godliness but denying it's power." That nails the socialist "religous" left. For example:
When God says in 2 Thessalonians 3:10: :"...we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat", socialism says: "We will forcibly seize, under penalty of law, the wages of those who work and give it to those who do not". That is socialism, a Christ-hating philosophy, acting in direct opposition to the commandments of Christ.
When God says in Exodus 20:13: "Thou shalt not kill", socialism decrees that some human life is unfit, and therefore open to extermination, i.e. unborn children, disabled people, and old people. Again, the man-centered, God-hating philosophy takes a stand in opposition to God.
When God says in Leviticus 20:13: If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.", and again in Romans 1: 26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."...32 "who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.", the left, "religous" and otherwise, legislates into the law of the land protections for people who engage in homosexual behavior, forces onto small schoolchildren homosexual indoctrination, holds parades and parties in celebration of the abomination of homosexuality, bestows civil rights on a deadly virus that is caused by and large by homosexual behavior, works tirelessly to destroy the free speech rights of Christians who speak out against the embracing of this abomination, and, lately, have sought to change the very ordinance of God by legalizing "gay" marriage.
When God says in Luke 4:18: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed" and in 2 Corinthians 3:17: "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.", the left, some of whom call themselves Christians, march in the streets, lay seige to President Bush's home in Texas, travel to war zones and put thier own lives and those of our military at mortal peril, use the media to loudly proclaim thier contempt and hatred for America, and vote into office those who, in different times, would be executed for treason. To what end? To bring to a screeching halt the ongoing liberation and freeing of the people if Iraq. This is socialism, the man-centered, God-rejecting, Christ-hating philosophy, again standing in open rebellion against God.
These are but a few examples of the way of the "religous" left, the way of the imposter, the way of deception, the way of socialism. They can cloak themselves in thier phony, false, lying version of "Christianity" until a new world is built, but, again, like Jesus said, "you will know them by thier works. And yes, we certainly do know them by what they really are.
Giovanna,
The way I live out Christ's commandment is quite simple, Mt 22: 36-39
36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" 37 He said to him, " "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
The values of social democracy are not 'man-centred.' The values of social democracy are community centred and is not 'Christ-hating.'
You said,
When God says in 2 Thessalonians 3:10: :"...we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat", socialism says: "We will forcibly seize, under penalty of law, the wages of those who work and give it to those who do not". That is socialism, a Christ-hating philosophy, acting in direct opposition to the commandments of Christ.
In (Acts 2:42-45) in the early church "42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 Awe came upon everyone, because many wonders and signs were being done by the apostles. 44 All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46 Day by day, as they spent much time together in the temple, they broke bread at home and ate their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having the goodwill of all the people. And day by day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.
And
Act 4: 32-35
32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. 33 With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. 35 They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. 36 There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means "son of encouragement"). 37 He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
We all pay taxes. Even the post ardent neo-Conservative needs tax money to pay for government, for the war in Iraq etc. The difference is I'd rather see my tax money being use for the benefit of a just and equitable society, and not for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.
I don't claim to be able to peer into the mind of God or use the Lord's name in vain by suggesting I can judge who stands in open rebellion of God. There are many in my Church who are Christian on Sunday, and athiest the rest of the week, but I still reach out my hand at the passing of the peace and say, Peace be with you.
Mt 13: 24a-30 reads,
"The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and then went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well. 27 And the slaves of the householder came and said to him, "Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where, then, did these weeds come from?' 28 He answered, "An enemy has done this.' The slaves said to him, "Then do you want us to go and gather them?' 29 But he replied, "No; for in gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. 30 Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.' "
The seeds have been sown, and the weeds have taken root. It is not our job to seperate the wheat from the weeds, or the sheep from the goats. This is the job of the one whom we profess as the Risen Lord. Does this mean we tolerate injustice. Definitely not, but it does mean that judgement is for the Lord. I assume you are a Christian, and that the seed of truth has been planted in your heart. I don't assume you, or anyone else is a weed sown by the enemy. Through-out the history of the Church good men and women have stood up as witnesses for Christ. Sometimes these martyr's witnessed to the state (Peter, Paul, Thomas More, Oscar Romero) and thus lost their lives for 'treason,' othertimes, martyr's have witnessed to the Church itself and have suffered excommunication and even death. Whatever the case, the church of Christ needs women and men in all places and all times to witness to the Kingdom of God.
Jesus first public appearance after his baptism as recorded by Luke was in the Synagogue in Nazereth,
"he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." 20 And he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 Then he began to say to them, "Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."
I continually ask myself the question, am I listening, am I hearing the Word, proclaimed in scripture and lived in this world. The Kingdom we pray for in the Lord's Prayer will only be fully realized, will only be fulfilled in our hearing the Word of the Lord. And the word is being proclaimed by those women and men of good will and faith, who stand up in the synagogues of our society, in public squares, at George Bush's front gate, on Parliament Hill, in public office, in war zones, in zones of poverty, among the alienated and the marginalized. These people are taking the scroll that is written on their hearts, opening it, and through their witness proclaiming ""The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
and for many in our society, "When they [hear] this, [they are] filled with rage. 29 They [drive the prophets out] of the town, and [lead them] to the brow of the hill on which [our society] was built, so that they might hurl [them]off the cliff."(Luke 4:28-30)
Giovanna, you are a fellow sojourner in Christ. I pray that I will be able to see the risen Christ in you and that you can see the risen Christ in me. In Christ, "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female, no longer socialist or capitalist; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
Peace be to God, Amen.
Chris D-Hales
"Social democracy" is a buzz word for, yes, man- centered, government-is-God, communal, Marxist, philosophy. "Loving thy neighbor as thyself" is not accompanied by "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs". Christ-centered charity that is traditionally meted out by the church is one thing, socialism, by which the secular government picks winners and losers and, using cofisicatory taxes that are seized by the producers of a society under threat of imprisonment, enslaves entire populations of human beings, is quite another.
Politicians seizing wages from one group of people and giving to another group of people who have done nothing to earn it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything said by Christ. Be careful that you don't let socialist politicians use the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ to justify their own power grabs, or contempt for certain people, or policies that intentionally keep people in poverty. Jesus Christ and Karl Marx are, well, Jesus Christ and a fallen, sinful man who rejected God's way of government for a secular humanist way of government. The two are as different as heaven and hell and Christians have to be careful to not merge the two.
Regarding your reference to Acts - this moment in time of the early church whereby people were tithing to God has nothing to do with the way modern governments are run and is not an endorsement of secular humanist socialism. Again, nothing that Christ ever said, or that God ever did, translates into socialism. Socialism is man-centered, God-rejecting, and soul-destroying. Christ is soul-saving, the Giver of abundant life, and has made it clear in His Word how we are to deal with the poor. And it's not by embracing a philosophy that rejects Him, and enforces policies which are the complete opposite of what He commanded.
We all pay taxes. Even the post ardent neo-Conservative needs tax money to pay for government, for the war in Iraq etc. The difference is I'd rather see my tax money being use for the benefit of a just and equitable society, and not for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.
And which definition of a "just and equitable society" are you going to live by? That of socialism, whereby injustices are perpetrated on a few to enslave as many as possible, or that of freedom where government is kept out of the lives of people as much as possible, and everyone has the freedom and opportunity to better himself according to his own abilities and ambitions? You said that you don't want your tax dollars to benefit the few at the expense of the many. How about not wanting your tax dollars used by power-mad elected socialists to keep certain people dependant on government for generation after generation? How about not wanting your tax dollars used by elected socialists to denegrate certain people and tell them that they're too stupid and incompetent to do anything for themselves? How about not wanting your tax dollars used by elected socialists to make certain people believe that they are victims and will never have what it takes to climb out of the gutter and have a good life?
I don't claim to be able to peer into the mind of God or use the Lord's name in vain by suggesting I can judge who stands in open rebellion of God.
Nice try but you don't need to be able to "peer into the mind of God" to be able to see rebellion against Him. All you have to do is look at what Jesus said and then watch what people, some of whom claim to be Christian, actually do. That's why Jesus said we would know them by their works. That means He gives us the ability to spot the phonies, the hypocrites, the socialists who do use His name in vain to further thier own selfish aims- the ones who twist His teachings and commandments to promote a philosophy that is straight from hell and which has not one iota of commonality with anything Christ ever said or did.
And the word is being proclaimed by those women and men of good will and faith, who stand up in the synagogues of our society, in public squares, at George Bush's front gate, on Parliament Hill, in public office, in war zones, in zones of poverty, among the alienated and the marginalized. These people are taking the scroll that is written on their hearts, opening it, and through their witness proclaiming ""The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
LOL. What are you talking about and where on earth do you find anything Christ-like among the anti-American, mass-murdering dictator-loving, terrorist-coddling Bush haters that continually fight to stop the liberation of the Iraqi people? These are people who love the fact that Saddam Hussein murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people, who love the idea of being able to put one's political enemies through wood chippers and dip them in acid, who love the idea of enslavement espoused by the Islamofacists, who identity totally with killers because they love death. Because they have reached the level of hate that enables a person to sympathize with murderers and adore the idea of genocide. These are people who have whole-heartedly rejected Jesus Christ and are completely on the side of death and hell. They may be "opening the scroll that is on their hearts" but the scroll is that of Satan, not of God. And they are not proclaiming anything having to do with Christ. Satan is who these people follow, not God.
Wow. Up until this paragraph, I thought you were just misguided but this last bit is quite revealing. The fact that you can actually believe that avowed Marxists who do everything in thier power to ensure that America loses the war against psychopath terrorists, who have stated that we should free Saddam Hussein, who go to Iraq and Israel and openly sympathize with and help mass murderers, the ones who, having been elected to Congress, use thier position of power to give aid and comfort to those who slaughtered thousands of American citizens, are "proclaiming Christ", tells me that your brand of "Christianity" certainly isn't the same as mine. I hope for your eternal sake you will examine your beliefs and seek earnestly seek God and come to a true knowledge and understanding of who He is. I think you will find that trying to marry Him with a philosophy that is completely against Him and His teachings is an exercise in willful, futile, self-inflicted deception and blindness. The ways of Satan are not compatible with Christ. It's as simple as that.
There is no possible way that Christ can ever even remotely be associated with not only socialism but also with murder and terrorism. And those who don't really know Him but try to use Him for thier own purposes will have to face Him one day. And because they don't know Him, and don't really believe anything He said, the fact that they will have to give an account of thier lives to God tragically never occurs to them.
Giovanna,
For one who professes the Gospel of Love, your posts have been quite hateful.
I'll pray for you and I hope you'll pray for me.
Peace,
Chris D-Hales,
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