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Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be
The Jewish World Review ^ | 4/31/2006 | Tony Snow

Posted on 03/31/2006 12:13:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

~~~~snip~~~~

Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002."

~~~~snip~~~~

Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent.

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; blindeyeontheborder; borderlist; bordersecurity; bushamnesty; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; mexicancrimewave; openborderopenwound; treason; voteforluis
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Friend that's legal: qualified radiologist (sp?)

Friend's brother whom is illegal: drug smuggler and now is in jail for a long time.


Little difference, wouldn't you say?

I know many legal mexican/central american immigrants that are doing good things, but your articles statistics are mixed. Is one to think there's no difference between a legal citizens vs an illegal citizen?

Truth is legal immigrants use a lot of social services as well...more so than illegal; but one just has to look at the individuals and the law with due respect. Having limited immigration is clearly resposible and should be respected.

Countries have to pick-up the pace..invest in infrastructure, and promote an appropriate enviroment for business and high education. India's on it's way, why not Mexico? America can't alleviate that burden. Mexicans have to respect their country enough to change it.


181 posted on 03/31/2006 1:35:34 PM PST by Rick_Michael
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To: adam_az

What if we detained or deported all employers that hire illegals? I mean these folks are CRIMINALS who are helping CRIMINALS stay in this country. They are aiding and abetting the invasion that so many speak of.


182 posted on 03/31/2006 1:36:22 PM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: gogeo
No, it's not. Know nothings believed that immigration was a danger to the US.

OK ... and it's clear that at least some of the folks on this thread are of the same opinion, so the comparison at least sticks to them on that point.

I want the F@CKING law enforced.

OK, fine -- so do I -- but the question for you is: if you think it does not pose a danger to the US, why would you want/need laws about it in the first place? And if you do think it poses a danger, what separates you from the Know-Nothings in that particular regard?

183 posted on 03/31/2006 1:36:33 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Interesting.

Indeed. Very. Thanks for posting this article. I really appreciate hearing the arguments from both sides of this debate.

Been a while, Luis. Hope that all is well with you and yours.

184 posted on 03/31/2006 1:37:08 PM PST by AHerald ("Truth is the only ground suitable for man to stand upon" - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: r9etb

I will agree that nobody knows the real number. I'd rather not get hung up on just exactly how big a number it is, we can agree I hope that it is a big bumber.


185 posted on 03/31/2006 1:37:22 PM PST by jpsb
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To: sinkspur
I don't think you read that post very closely. It wasn't about what those two posters belong to. It was about what Tony Snow belongs to.
186 posted on 03/31/2006 1:37:32 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: elc
How old is this information? My fiancee is on an H1-B and he pays Social Security taxes.

if the H1-B worker is employed by a consulting firm and acting as an independent contractor, they're not subject to US tax withholding...that, unfortunately is still the case as far as I know

187 posted on 03/31/2006 1:37:53 PM PST by Irontank (Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty -- John Adams)
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To: gogeo
I want the F@CKING law enforced

The law about drilling in ANWR is being enforced, should that law stay put or should it be changed.

188 posted on 03/31/2006 1:38:01 PM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
Our current immigration policies (as they presently are) guarentee that the majority of immigrants (legal and illegal) will be supporting the continuation and expansion of government welfare/entitlement programs.

What has happened in Orange County (Bob Dornan's old district) proves that in spades...

189 posted on 03/31/2006 1:40:15 PM PST by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: kesg

Yes and no.

You, IMHO, don't understand what is transpiring in America right now.


190 posted on 03/31/2006 1:40:22 PM PST by samcgwire (samcgwire was not here today)
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To: gogeo
I want the F@CKING law enforced.

There you go, at least you are putting it right where it should be!

And it would be nice to blame the Rats, but our Republican party has been in power for the last 5 years... so whom do we blame? :)

The Illegals just do what they are almost enticed to do... "Hey come here to our side.. we'll give a job," so they come. By the very ACT that the borders are wide open, that in itself gives them mixed signals. Stupid they are not...If the U.S. wanted to stop the flow of illegals, they could. It's that simple.

191 posted on 03/31/2006 1:40:33 PM PST by ElPatriota (Let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: Texas_Jarhead; Luis Gonzales
10 percent send kids to public schools.

The only way this can be true is if the '10%' figure equals the proportion of illegal immigrants in the study that have school-aged children.

There are several school districts here in Arizona whose student population is composed largely (one-third or more) of illegal aliens.

192 posted on 03/31/2006 1:40:58 PM PST by HiJinx (~ www.proudpatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~)
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To: ErieGeno

"What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.
IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).
ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.
Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception"
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html
It is one thing to be oblivious about something, quite another to make statements in wanton deception or ignorance.
See post #59 Einstein. And the rest of the thread.


193 posted on 03/31/2006 1:41:30 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas
"If anyone perpetrates an act that violates our laws, you do not want them in our country. Does that apply only to those who violate our immigration laws or those who violate any law. If your outrage applies only to those that violate immigration laws, what is the moral turpitude that is so heinous that your outrage can be selective. If your outrage applies to all violators of our laws, what would you do with those in our country that violate anything other than our immigration laws? Where would you deport them?"

You don't get it. If the crime is theft we make you give the loot back. If you injure someone we make you pay restitution. If you violate traffic laws you can lose your privilege to drive. If you violate our laws by coming here illegally we will send you back. Not only does the punishment fit the crime but the conditions existing before the crime must be restored. It has nothing to do with moral turpitude nor is it racist, xenophobic nor any of the other nasty names open border people like to use.
194 posted on 03/31/2006 1:43:43 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding)

Amazing.

Only a little over half of Americans pay any income taxes.

195 posted on 03/31/2006 1:44:26 PM PST by NeoCaveman (the freeper formerly known as dubyaismypresident)
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To: inquest
Now, where are your facts that contradict him on this?

When was the last time that a GOP Presidential candidate win in California? We have lots of Hispanics here in Texas, yet this state has trended more solidly GOP in the last 10 years. And so has the Hispanic vote in places where GOP politicians treat them like good human beings rather than presumed criminals or relatives of Osama Bin Laden.

I want to win elections. Losing sucks. And losing to Democrats sucks big time. So, let's solve this problem in a way that helps continue a trend of Hispanic voters to voting GOP. This trend is part of what was an emerging GOP permanent majority beginning in 2002. And it helped Bush and other Republicans in 2004. These people, by and large, are culturally conservative and hard-working. We can win them over to the GOP. If we succeed, the Democrats are toast. President Bush knows about this because, well, he used to be Governor of Texas.

196 posted on 03/31/2006 1:44:34 PM PST by kesg
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To: Skylab

Good find!


197 posted on 03/31/2006 1:46:08 PM PST by kesg
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Hey, Tony, I have a question:

If you're right in your assertions, why, in the very title of your piece, do you engage in the intellectual dishonesty of failing to accurately describe the topic; inaccurately refering, instead, to "immigration" in the generic sense?

As one who, I must assume, wants their observations to be taken seriously, you must know that leading with such chicanery runs counter to your purpose. So, again, why did you do it?


198 posted on 03/31/2006 1:47:00 PM PST by HKMk23 (We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.)
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To: kesg
Funny. In Texas, the Rats controlled the Legislature for generations -- until recently. The GOP has its act together here. What is your excuse in California? But I was referring to the fact that GOP Presidential candidates used to be able to take California for granted. Now they can take it as a given that they will lose in California. And the main reason is the seismic political shift that occurred there in the last 14 years.

That's a bogus comparison. California has been collecting fruits and nuts from all over America for the last 50 years. That's liberal Mecca. That has nothing to do with Prop 187. Scott McKenzie was singing about people with flowers in their hair in 1968...what kind of reception would a guy with flowers in his hair received in Texas in 1968?

Hispanics in Florida are primarily Cuban and primarily conservative. Illegal immigration is probably less popular with them than the American public as a whole.

199 posted on 03/31/2006 1:47:23 PM PST by gogeo (The /sarc tag is a form of training wheels for those unable to discern intellectual subtlety.)
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To: Tammy8

You raise a good point about illegals paying federal and state income tax. Don't you have to have a SSN to file your taxes? If so, how does one get one except through document fraud if they are illegal?


200 posted on 03/31/2006 1:47:32 PM PST by Binghamton_native
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