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Darwin: Headed for the Ash-Heap
And Rightlyso...Conservative Book Club ^ | 1-20-2006 | Jeffrey Rubin

Posted on 03/14/2006 1:37:33 PM PST by joyspring777

Of the three intellectual pillars of modern liberalism -- Marx, Darwin, and Freud -- only one is still standing. Marx fell in 1989, along with the Berlin Wall. Freud's demise is more difficult to date; suffice it to say that, by the end of the century, no one, with the possible exception of Woody Allen, took him seriously any more. Darwin, I predict, will suffer a similar fate within the next ten to fifteen years.

That may seem counterintuitive in light of recent legal and public-relations setbacks suffered by critics of Darwinism -- notably a federal judge's decision forbidding the teaching of "Intelligent Design" (a term for one aspect of the anti-Darwin critique) in Dover, Pa., public schools. But it is a sign of weakness, not strength, when one side in an ostensibly scientific debate resorts to silencing the other. If the case for Darwin is such a slam-dunk, why not welcome the chance for its opponents to make fools of themselves?

No, Darwinists are running scared. Even their attempts to declare victory on scientific grounds betray more than a whiff of desperation. Case in point: the year-end edition of the journal Science hailing "evolution in action" as its "Breakthrough of the Year." Among the "dramatic discoveries" said by the magazine to make 2005 "a banner year for uncovering the intricacies of how evolution actually proceeds," none in itself demonstrates whether evolution proceeds, and they only shed light on how if you first assume that it does.

Here, for instance, is Science editor Donald Kennedy describing "one of my favorites" in this evidentiary explosion: "the European blackcap, a species of warbler that spends the winter in two separate places but then reunites to breed, with birds selecting mates from those who shared the same wintering ground. Assortative mating of this kind can produce a gradual differentiation of the two populations. Biologists have shown that new species can arise because of geographic barriers that separate subpopulations, but the divergent evolution shown in this case could result in new species arising within a single range."

If it seems that the bare facts adduced here don't quite amount to a clear instance of "evolution in action," that's because they don't. At best, they demonstrate what's known as "microevolution" -- modification within a species -- which no anti-Darwinist disputes. What is disputed is "macroevolution," the change of one species into another, which is the central claim of Darwinism. If macroevolution occurs, the "assortative mating" of the European blackcap might help to explain how it works, but it does nothing to prove that it does occur.

The fact is,nothing proves that macroevolution occurs, or ever has occurred. And, at a certain point, the absence of proof, especially where it ought to be abundant, constitutes, if not positive disproof, at least strong reasons for doubt. According to Darwin's theory of descent through gradual modification (by way of random mutation and natural selection), the fossil record should contain near-infinite numbers of ever-so-slightly-different "transitional" forms, and even greater numbers of evolutionary dead ends. Despite the best efforts of archaeologists, not even a hint of that has materialized in the fossil record. Instead, what we should not expect to find, according to Darwin's theory, is what we do find: the sudden appearance of innumerable distinct species, as we have in the so-called Cambrian Explosion.

Needless to say, a debate like this can't be settled in the space of a column. Neither, however, can it be settled by shutting out the other side. Darwinists, of course, would have us believe that there is no other side, only a bunch of anti-science religious fanatics who don't deserve to be heard. That approach can succeed, but not for long. As I say, I give them fifteen years, tops.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: anotheratheist; christianscience; christiantaliban; creatards; creation; crevolist; darwinism; dreamonmacduff; evolution; headinsand; idiocy; idispseudoscience; ignoranceisbliss; ignoranceisstrength; intellectualdesign; morons; ohplease; pridefullyignorant; pseudoscience; religionisnotscience
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To: narby
Books like "Darwin in Trial" are transparently money making devices. You can find such books on any subject. The JFK assassination, the Bermuda triangle, many such issues where the public has some knowledge and interest, but not enough time to really study a subject in depth, giving profiteers a market.

I can't have a dialogue with you if you truly believe "Darwin on Trial" to be in the same category as books on UFOs and the like.

561 posted on 03/16/2006 11:13:11 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Diamond
Whether creationism or evolutionism is ontologically true, it does not follow that correct classification will be epistemologically easy.

It should follow that you can tell an ape skull from a human skull, if creationism is true. No ape skull looks all that human now. All the skulls below are extant primate life forms.

Does throwing in gratuitous "ontologically"s and "epistemologically"s ease the pain when admitting you can't seem to tell an ape from a human in the fossil record? "Epistemologically easy?" Give it up, man!

562 posted on 03/16/2006 11:23:58 AM PST by VadeRetro (I have the updated "Your brain on creationism" on my homepage.)
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To: Aquinasfan
I can't have a dialogue with you if you truly believe "Darwin on Trial" to be in the same category as books on UFOs and the like.

A book by a lawyer who presumes to critique science? Yeah, it's about like a book on UFOs. Lawyers can bring out great arguments, but at every trial there's a lawyer representing the truth, and another representing BS, and both of them probably know full well which one is which. I wouldn't trust a lawyer to do much of anything, much less tell me about science.

Moreover, the book is dated. It apparently deals with DNA evidence, but that was 15 years ago, before we sequenced the human genome, and much of the chimps. The additional confirmation of evolution by comparing actual DNA base pair sequences has totally confirmed the earlier fossil evidence, which author Johnson critiqued in the book. This cross confirming evidence by completely different means is worth more than the sum of both scientific techniques.

Evolution is true. And as has always been the case, when faith challenges science head on, faith loses. Again.

When will religious people learn to stay away from science?

563 posted on 03/16/2006 12:09:35 PM PST by narby (Evolution is the new "third rail" in American politics)
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To: joyspring777

Ah, but I would say the same thing about the Bible. I'm saying we should agree to disagree, and not assume that if someone believes in God and evolution they have their theology wrong.


564 posted on 03/16/2006 12:19:12 PM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: VadeRetro
Does throwing in gratuitous "ontologically"s and "epistemologically"s ease the pain when admitting you can't seem to tell an ape from a human in the fossil record? "Epistemologically easy?" Give it up, man!

Tell me about it.

The Homo habilis Debate

Another debate centered around [sic] Homo habilis and Homo rudolfensis is whether or not these two species belong in the genus Homo or would be better suited in one of the other hominid genera. Some researchers feel that all species within the genus Homo should have characteristics, such as locomotor patterns, diet and body proportions, that make them more like modern humans than like the australopiths. These researchers feel that the characteristics of H. habilis and H. rudolfensis are more ape-like than modern, a conclusion that would remove them from our genus. This would make Homo a monophyly (all species evolved from a common ancestor), rather than a polyphyly (the species evolved from more than one ancestor) as it is now thought to be. Other reseearchers think, however, that moving the two species out of the genus Homo does not solve the problem since the specimens do not easily fit into the genus Australopithecus as currently defined.

Examples of this sort of thing are legion. Nothing gratuitous about it.

Cordially

565 posted on 03/16/2006 12:50:31 PM PST by Diamond
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To: narby
...It's driven me away [from] God,...,

Since you made this claim and then did not reply to my question, I will ask again.

Are you still away from God?

566 posted on 03/16/2006 12:55:49 PM PST by OriginalIntent (Your plan of attack was known years ago, some of us saw right through it immediately.)
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To: fabian

My first comment tells why I don't believe the fossil record as it stand has disproved Darwin. I think punctuated equilibrium is a reasonable theory, especially given the near-nonexistence of the fossil record. There is a mega-pattern in the history of the planet, which can be seen even in our own time: species extinguish other species, and the process is accelerating and the number of species getting fewer all the time. For long periods of time there was such a thing as an ecological niche--thus the stability and the seeming lack of transitional species. Now even the ecological niches are being obliterated. Take a huge step back and look at the whole thing.


567 posted on 03/16/2006 1:09:05 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Diamond
That is precisely your problem. Homo habilis, probably the most human-like hominid of its day, straddles the "gap" creationists would claim separates ape to man.

Some scientists have argued for putting some early habiline specimens into genus Australopithecus. There's intergrading up and down the hominid series.

Kind of hard to make separate created kinds out of that.

The skulls I posted are all modern species. They don't intergrade because they're the tips of the branches. As you go back in time, the branches grow closer and closer together, divergence run backwards. That's the signature of evolution. That's why things get hard to lump neatly into modern bins as you go back.

568 posted on 03/16/2006 1:15:10 PM PST by VadeRetro (I have the updated "Your brain on creationism" on my homepage.)
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To: TOWER
Sorry, please try again. Heard that one before. And to show that I'm a nice guy, I'll give you the obvious retort.

1) Your nice little story is about abiogensis, not evolution. Evolution does not care how the first lifeforms came to be.

2) Sand castles do not self-replicate.

Self-replication is not a hurdle so easily discarded. You are leaving a galaxy size hole in your logic. Saying that natural phenomenon can develop self-replication in organisms is more fanciful than my sandcastle story.

Abiogenesis only applies to the simplest lifeform, not well developed mechanisms that perpetuate life. Self-replication does not fall under the category of abiogenesis.

Scientifically explain the development of self-replication. As I have said illogic has conquered Academia. Darwinian theory is a lump of sand on the beach.

569 posted on 03/16/2006 2:00:04 PM PST by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. †)
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To: VadeRetro

We are talking about people who KNOW IT IS A LIE. The Apostles had to KNOW they were dieing for a lie.

These kids really believe what they are going to get.


570 posted on 03/16/2006 2:31:00 PM PST by joyspring777
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To: Filo
I'm no scientist, but I can read and think. There are many scientists that likewise challenge evolution, from non-understanding of evolution or the basics of science, research, theory and the like, do you think? They don't think evolution is "established theory and fact". Are they ignorant?

I'm not seeking a convert to my beliefs; I'm heaping ridicule in the same way I heap ridicule on the notion that the Earth is 5,000 years old.

Actually, faith requires intelligence to operate. 80% of America shares the same faith now, and in the past, yet America is the leading superpower in the world. You figure the 80% are just dumb morons being directed and monitored by the 20% of enlightened atheists?

I've seen the enough of your "documentation", don't bother. No intelligent man, never having heard of macro-evolution, would sign on to it, being compelled thereby. It requires preconditioning.

To go from a warm pond to species diversity, mammals, insects and plants existing today, the "documentation" would exclusively fill every library in the nation. Every single fossil would be an obvious transitional form.

"Belief" is the right word. Evolutioners believe in macro-evolution because they want to and for no other reason. I figure somebody saw you coming.

571 posted on 03/16/2006 2:37:59 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: bondserv
Saying that natural phenomenon can develop self-replication in organisms is more fanciful than my sandcastle story.

Even if this is true -- and I will note that you have not demonstrated as much -- the fact remains that evolution can only occur after self-replication exists. As such, the origin of the ability to self-replicate is not a "problem" for the theory of evolution.
572 posted on 03/16/2006 3:00:25 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio
Even if this is true -- and I will note that you have not demonstrated as much -- the fact remains that evolution can only occur after self-replication exists. As such, the origin of the ability to self-replicate is not a "problem" for the theory of evolution.

How many more key components of viable life are you willing to cast aside?

Reproductive, digestive, circulatory, respiratory, the senses, temperature regulation, immunities..........

573 posted on 03/16/2006 3:11:52 PM PST by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. †)
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To: joyspring777
We are talking about people who KNOW IT IS A LIE. The Apostles had to KNOW they were dieing for a lie.

So they could have been mistaken, or the 9-11 bombers could have been mistaken, or both, or neither. In short, anyone's willingness to die for The TRVTH reveals nothing about the truth of The TRVTH.

It just wasn't a good, logical argument, OK?

574 posted on 03/16/2006 3:29:49 PM PST by VadeRetro (I have the updated "Your brain on creationism" on my homepage.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
No one has seen an atom, but based on the theory of atoms you can make assumptions and test them in a lab. If the test results are consistant then you have observation that your theory is correct.

"You turn on the electric light in the morning without wondering whether the polarity of electrons has changed from negative to positive overnight."

That is an example of how we can verify certain theories of electron flow. You can not do any of that with the origins of life theory. When you can get a lizard to mutate to a bird, then you have observation.

"People who object to the Theory of Evolution-- one of the best-supported of all scientific theories-- demand of it a degree of certainty they demand of no other branch of science (or, indeed, of any branch of human knowledge)."

You got that backwards. It is the Evo's that have demanded that the theory of origins is certain to such a high degree of certainty that us Creationists/IDer's are labeled "insane" to believe anything else. When we point out the inconsistancies, the "song-and-dance" team quotes, like the one up above come out.

"Evolution is how God created us in His image."

And you know that...how?

Sincerely
575 posted on 03/16/2006 3:36:28 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: andysandmikesmom

Lurker placemarker


576 posted on 03/16/2006 3:52:23 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: William Terrell
I'm no scientist, but I can read and think.

Obvious on both counts.

There are many scientists that likewise challenge evolution, from non-understanding of evolution or the basics of science, research, theory and the like, do you think?

Not really. There are a few (maybe a few dozen, maybe a few hundred, but certainly a tiny percentage of the scientific community) that deny evolution as soundly as you do. There are more who may argue one or more aspects (such as the above discussions about which genus to assign a specific specimen) but they aren't arguing against evolution, just one aspect of one species path through the ages. Creationists will blow this argument up into an argument over whether evolution is true, but that's a typical straw man.

I'm not seeking a convert to my beliefs

You're certainly not going to get any without an argument of some sorts. A competing theory with some form of backing. All you've presented is opposition to the prevailing theory. You're running around screaming "gravity isn't true" but you won't even offer the hypothesis that the Earth sucks!

Oh, and faith requires pre-conditioning as well. . . ;)

To go from a warm pond to species diversity, mammals, insects and plants existing today, the "documentation" would exclusively fill every library in the nation. Every single fossil would be an obvious transitional form.

Not at all and another canard. There is no need to document every single aspect of the evolution of every single species to validate evolution. We've actually documented quite enough to verify the theory and now we're filling in the gaps to figure out what's related to what and to answer some of the more compelling questions.

Would you argue that the existance and function of DNA can't be true until we understand what every single base pair does and how? What a crock.
577 posted on 03/16/2006 3:56:07 PM PST by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: narby
The "zombification" idea is quite the streach. Jesus was put to death by a trained group of Romans. The Roman charge against Him would have amounted to the leader of an insurection. They would have made sure he was dead.

Hanging on a cross is suffication. Even if you were on drugs, the lungs are collapsed and you die, if you don't pull yourself back up. Plus, many many more things that point to the fact that Jesus was killed, and that something miraculous occured to inspire so many. But, I understand that you don't want to believe that, so, I'll just move on.

"But the bottom line is there really is no bullet proof evidence that anything in the Bible is true."

HERE is just a quick reference source that shows that somethings in the Bible are proven to be very acurate.

"Except with Catholics who have followed the lead of the Vatican and separated their faith from any possible conflict with science. That is the intelligent policy, and someday perhaps American fundamentalist Christians will follow it."

As long as the Bible says things like.....

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You won't have true Bible believers accepting that you have millions of years of death before man arrives on the scene. If death wasn't the result of sin, then the Bible is wrong and Jesus didn't need to die. This is because Jesus rescues us from the punishment for sin....death. Those "christians" that accept otherwise, are not understanding their own faith.

Sincerely
578 posted on 03/16/2006 4:01:01 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: hail to the chief

Saying the same about the Bible does not make it so.

There is no sane comparison between the two.


579 posted on 03/16/2006 4:08:34 PM PST by joyspring777
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To: hail to the chief

Ok.


Either their theology is wrong, or their belief about origins and how we got here is wrong.

They are truly mutually exclusive.


580 posted on 03/16/2006 4:09:49 PM PST by joyspring777
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