Four Myths About Living Together Without Marriage

Human Events ^ | Mar 01, 2006 | Janice Shaw Crouse

[null and void]

It takes two to tangle...

[HairOfTheDog]

And untangle, apparently ;~D

[Paloma_55]

"Don't much like women?"

LOL.

I will ask my wife of 23 years. She will definitely let me know.

[Paloma_55]

Whoaaaaa...take it easy there.

General comment for general situation.

There are plenty of exceptions. Guaranteed!

[Feiny]

Glad you see that since your original post stated the "real reasons" women don't marry. I would go as far as to say most people who are living together are not doing it for the "free ride".

[R. Scott]

I know your post was tongue in cheek – but I couldn’t resist.

[John O]

The court gets involved in the details only when people involve it.

you are correct. I did not express my thoughts completely enough to be clear. let me try again

In the case where one party is being unreasonable, the courts will usually shaft the man. Even if the woman is the unreasonable one and when she broke the marriage. At least that's been the experience in my portion of the country and (from first hand reports here) in quite a few other areas as well.

This is not to say that every man who gets divorced gets shafted but it happens enough that men have grown very wary of marriage.

[John O]

To say that one is merely using the other if a couple lives together before marriage is overly simplistic

Note that I never said in all (at least I don't I ever said in all). I said in most cohabitational situations the guy is using the woman. I stand by that.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I'd say men who marry and have children should not fear marriage, but a good healthy fear of divorce is good for both men and women to have. :~D

I don't buy that the man always gets shafted. It doesn't pass the smell test. It doesn't match what I've seen in friends. Is life just as good as it was before? No - not always, divorce isn't really good for families ever.

[John O]

While I can see societal benefits to the monogamy that has traditionally come from celibacy before marriage, the lack of celibacy was not necessarily the part of the act that brought the benefit, the monogamy and commitment after the commitment was.

And of course I disagree. And always will disagree. Premarital sex is bad for people. I hold that opinion from a biblical standpoint as well as from an experiential standpoint. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[HairOfTheDog]

And that's fine, John... I get your point, and I admire it.

[John O]

Have you maybe talked to more men than women about it?

About the same but I examine the circumstances in each case. A guy who's not been shafted will claim to be shafted and a women whose ex-husband was shafted will never admit that he was shafted. (and in those rare occasions vice versa)

[John O]

Your comments about women are far more negative then your comments about men. And you've been called on them several times by a number of us. Not until Hair and I pointed them out to you on this thread, did your comments become more reasonable.

I know from experience that for some reason everything I say seems to strike you the wrong way but this comment leaves me kind of scratching my head. I was intending to be equally negative about both men and women in these situations (short term non-long haul commitment cohabitation). Can you point examples out to me on where I was more negative to one than the other?

I can recall in highschool hearing the female students who went "too far" with the male students being called "whores." The unfairness of it, struck a strong chord with me, because it wasn't what I was taught at home, or in religion class either. My beliefs about it haven't changed and never will. Some of the comments you make are precisely the same kind of thinking.

So are the girls who sleep around not whores? Of course the guys who sleep around are also whores. Does the label affixed to one change the label affixed to another? It shouldn't. Either one is a whore or one is not. It doesn't really matter what anyone else is.

Note that I've said (from the beginning of this thread if I recall correctly) that I look down on both members of these short term cohabitational arrangements

[John O]

Where were you when I need you?????

Sorry. I guess I was asleep at the switch that time. :^)

This is one of those things that has always confused me. The goal of marriage is to spend the rest of your life with someone yet so many people accept a divorced person (even mulitply divorced people) as a suitable mate with no deep research into their character.

It seems to me that if someone's been divorced once that maybe they just picked a loser for their spouse. After two or more failed marriages the only thing common is the divorced person. Maybe they are the problem.

That's why I say that you have to look close and hard at a divorced person and much harder at a multiply divorced person before making a commitment to them. The odds for that second (or third or seventh etc) divorce are just too great.

Another thing that confuses me is a woman (or man) who will run around with a married person and then expect that person to remain faithful once they get married to each other. If he ran around with you he'll run around on you. To me this is self-evident but so many can't see it.

[John O]

Well, I'd say men who marry and have children should not fear marriage, but a good healthy fear of divorce is good for both men and women to have. :~D

A man who wants children must get married. Can't preseve your lineage through illegitimate chidlren.

I don't buy that the man always gets shafted.

I never said always.

BTW, how do you manage to always reply to my posts within about 15 seconds of when I hit the post button? It's uncanny

[N3WBI3]

Until the laws are more equal for the man in a divorce. The only people who want to be married will continue to be the gays.

I hope there was some sarcasm in there. I am very happy in my marriage, and I know many young men who are the same, or looking forward to it. I also know many older couples who have been married happily for years.

[null and void]

Another thing that confuses me is a woman (or man) who will run around with a married person and then expect that person to remain faithful once they get married to each other. If he ran around with you he'll run around on you. To me this is self-evident but so many can't see it.

I briefly dated a married woman when I was young and [more] foolish. She neglected to tell me she was married. To a Marine Corps Drill Instructor.

I always asked first after that...

[N3WBI3]

Which, if they had married before moving in, would mean divorce. Kinda hurts that point.

There is a deeper bond in marrage that will survive more difficult times.

[N3WBI3]

Thank you! I'm sick of the flippancy with which many freepers treat marriage. Its not funny to slam marriage as something for 'suckers' or something less than being single.

[N3WBI3]

Until our courts make divorce a more equitable process, there won't be much incentive for men to marry, except to exploit women for sex or money.

Wow if you think marriage is about sex and money its no wonder you're so jaded. My wife is my friend, and partner. She helps me to be a better Christian. I have less money and recreational time now than when I was single but I am a more complete person.