The Swedish Media Massage (The disturbing truth about Sweden’s moral decay)

My daughter was married to a Swede and him and his family were the nicest people. When my daughter went to Sweden to visit her in laws she was surprised to say the least at what was shown on tv. they also have very long vacations because of the very long times of darkness due to winter. There is alot of drinking and people are more or less expected to live together before they are married if they ever get married. Now her inlaws were a little consevative and dearly love the US. In fact they have an American flag that flies over their front yard which I sent over to them. When my daughter was married many of my son-in-laws family came over and we had one heck of a reception!But sadly the marriage did not last!

The following is a sarcastic statement to expose a broken logic: '"Thou shalt not kill" only applies to non-sociopathic, non-psychotic normal people. Those of selective memory and unrestrained rage are completely free from the 5th Commandment.'

The Fop states, "I happen to think that there are many people who are born gay."

El Cid said, "I agree that we are all born 'diseased' in one degree or another."

Being conceived with original sin, we mortals are all susceptible to sin. Some are more inclined to offend God than others.

Homosexuality is an offense to God's creation because the plumbing of the abomination refuses fruitful copulation. In fact, the very act is violent mutilation of the intended purpose for our procreative bodies.

The logic of stating that the Bible only addresses '"a man shall not lie with another" is only for heterosexuals,' is the same as giving a pass to violence prone individuals. Perhaps this is why so much of the real world abuse, crime, and especially murder come from a homosexual population. Less than 2% is responsible for 50% of the violence. Even if homosexuality can claim up to 10% of a population (perhaps in a concentrated city), the sexually perverted are still responsible for a huge portion of violent crime.

Selective obedience is still a revolt in which whose defenders decay into revolting perversions and self-destruction.

There is Hope and Joy for those of us who are that much more separated from the flock. By their very conception of their fallen position from Grace (i.e. born into a violent family, drug abuse, etc.), these souls have much more to know of Jesus' yearning for them and MUCH higher reward awaiting them should they turn to Christ. Our Heavenly Father is not so concerned for the Sunday choir that never misses a note of Weekly or even Daily Celebration. God desires the worst sinners much MUCH more than the Daily Communicant. And when the Grave Robber returns with a once lost sheep, He pours that MUCH more GRACE onto the returned soul! He kills the fatted calf in the victory feast of having spoiled hell's want for spreading misery and suffering.

The soul, the once lost lamb that was once so firmly ensnared in the grip of evil's deadly jaws, becomes Heaven's victory. Seated at the banquet given for his once lost honor, the forgiven sinner is returned to full Redemption. All of stains of his sins, no matter how horrible, are ALL FORGOTTEN!

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm51.htm

Psalm 51

7
True, I was born guilty, a sinner, even as my mother conceived me.
8
Still, you insist on sincerity of heart; in my inmost being teach me wisdom.
9
Cleanse me with hyssop, that I may be pure; wash me, make me whiter than snow.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/luke/luke15.htm

Luke
Chapter 15

1 The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him,
2
but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
3
So to them he addressed this parable.
4
"What man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it?
5
And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy
6
and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.'
7
I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.
8
"Or what woman having ten coins 2 and losing one would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it?
9
And when she does find it, she calls together her friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found the coin that I lost.'
10
In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
11
Then he said, "A man had two sons,
12
and the younger son said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of your estate that should come to me.' So the father divided the property between them.
13
After a few days, the younger son collected all his belongings and set off to a distant country where he squandered his inheritance on a life of dissipation.
14
When he had freely spent everything, a severe famine struck that country, and he found himself in dire need.
15
So he hired himself out to one of the local citizens who sent him to his farm to tend the swine.
16
And he longed to eat his fill of the pods on which the swine fed, but nobody gave him any.
17
Coming to his senses he thought, 'How many of my father's hired workers have more than enough food to eat, but here am I, dying from hunger.
18
I shall get up and go to my father and I shall say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.
19
I no longer deserve to be called your son; treat me as you would treat one of your hired workers."'
20
So he got up and went back to his father. While he was still a long way off, his father caught sight of him, and was filled with compassion. He ran to his son, embraced him and kissed him.
21
His son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I no longer deserve to be called your son.'
22
But his father ordered his servants, 'Quickly bring the finest robe and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.
23
Take the fattened calf and slaughter it. Then let us celebrate with a feast,
24
because this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.' Then the celebration began.
25
Now the older son had been out in the field and, on his way back, as he neared the house, he heard the sound of music and dancing.
26
He called one of the servants and asked what this might mean.
27
The servant said to him, 'Your brother has returned and your father has slaughtered the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28
He became angry, and when he refused to enter the house, his father came out and pleaded with him.
29
He said to his father in reply, 'Look, all these years I served you and not once did I disobey your orders; yet you never gave me even a young goat to feast on with my friends.
30
But when your son returns who swallowed up your property with prostitutes, for him you slaughter the fattened calf.'
31
He said to him, 'My son, you are here with me always; everything I have is yours.
32
But now we must celebrate and rejoice, because your brother was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.'"

aptly put

thanks for the ping

"When “gay marriage” opposition is ill-founded or illogical, “gay marriage” supporters can, and do, divert attention from valid opposition by attacking the ill-founded argument and successfully diverting public attention from the more valid arguments."

Those who support gay marriage believe very strongly that the idea that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured is "ill-founded". I happen to agree with them, though I certainly wouldn't call my opinion a "fact". This is a hotly debated issue that has yet to be resolved by any scientific proof.

My argument against gay marriage is geared towards those who share my belief about some people being "authentically gay". I think you'd have a tough time convincing these people otherwise. I'm trying to show these people that legalizing gay marriage isn't something that just affects gays. It's about society's view of homosexuality in general. Either we view homosexuality as normal or abnormal. One can believe that some people are born gay, and still view them as abnormal. I want homosexuality to viewed as abnormal, and legalizing gay marriage would put an end to that.

Those who support gay marriage believe very strongly that the idea that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured is "ill-founded".

You offer no facts or statistics to support your claim. Further, your contradict your own assertion with the statement: This is a hotly debated issue that has yet to be resolved by any scientific proof.

My argument against gay marriage is geared towards those who share my belief about some people being "authentically gay".

Once again, your previous statement contradicts any logical foundation that could exist for your position.

I think you'd have a tough time convincing these people [who believe in "authentically gay" people] otherwise.

As you have admitted, there is not any scientific proof to support the position that anyone is authentically gay. Those who refuse to consider fact and logic when forming opinions will not be convinced by some else who formed a conflicting opinion in the same manner. Consequently, your ill-founded argument will convince no one and it delusional to think otherwise.

One can believe that some people are born gay, and still view them as abnormal.

This is the only logical argument you have presented. However, even this argument is only supported by implied premises rather than stated ones. It is hardly the way to present a convincing argument.

I want homosexuality to viewed as abnormal, and legalizing gay marriage would put an end to that.

This argument is improperly stated and poorly supported, even by implied premises. It requires your audience to make assumptions and take “cognitive leaps into the unknown.” It appears that you are presenting an argument that legalizing “gay marriage” would somehow counter the perception that homosexuality is abnormal.

You might want to refer to my post #47, the numbered paragraphs.

??????

Let me try to be as clear as possible.....

1. Lots of people believe that some people are born gay. I know plenty of them, and have heard many others express this same view.

2. Some of these people believe that it's a FACT that some people are born gay. I don't. I acknowledge that there is no scientific evidence to prove this, and that it's just an OPINION.

3. No, legalizing gay marriage will not mean that every single person will automatically, overnight, view homosexuality as normal. Many people will never view homosexuality as normal, and that's a good thing. However, there are many other people who will be influenced by the fact that our government will treating homosexuality as normal, and that's not a good thing, and is something that I fear will have long term negative effects on the sexual morality of our society.

4. You will never be able to persuade those who believe that some people are born gay to oppose gay marriage by trying to convince them that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. They will dismiss this argument as the ravings of religious fanatics.

5. If you want to abandon trying to convince these people to oppose gay marriage because they do not accept your view that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured, that's your choice. Since I don't share this view, I will try to convince them to oppose gay marriage based on other arguments, arguments that you would obviously not view as being valid, as we disagree about whether homosexuality is a disease or an innate birth defect.

Lots of people believe that some people are born gay. I know plenty of them, and have heard many others express this same view.

Lots and many are indefinite modifiers and convincing only to someone who isn’t a critical thinker. Nonetheless, I will accept your postulate that “some” people may hold the opinion you have posed.

Some of these people believe that it's a FACT that some people are born gay. I don't. I acknowledge that there is no scientific evidence to prove this, and that it's just an OPINION

As I noted before, those who refuse to consider fact and logic when forming opinions will not be convinced by some else who formed a conflicting opinion in the same manner.

However, there are many other people who will be influenced by the fact that our government will treating homosexuality as normal…

Sadly, you are probably correct. However, ill-founded arguments opposing homosexual behavior will probably not convince such people, either, before or after, some governmental action.

You will never be able to persuade those who believe that some people are born gay to oppose gay marriage by trying to convince them that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. They will dismiss this argument as the ravings of religious fanatics.

There are some people you cannot convince that the earth is round rather than flat. That does not mean that most people cannot be convinced by well reasoned, well supported arguments. In contrast, very few, if any, people are convinced by ill-founded arguments.

If you want to abandon trying to convince these people to oppose gay marriage because they do not accept your view that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured, that's your choice… as we disagree about whether homosexuality is a disease or an innate birth defect.

I do not believe that homosexuality is a disease nor have I expressed such in our discussion on this, or any other, thread. My position has always been that homosexual behavior is a conscious choice. As such, its practitioners can choose not to engage in the activity with the proper motivation. To assert otherwise is illogical and completely unsupported by facts.

I will try to convince them to oppose gay marriage based on other arguments, arguments that you would obviously not view as being valid...

Good luck. However, I fear your efforts are doomed to failure and will only create frustration for you. Consequently, I suggest you use facts and logic in your efforts

I know many people who oppose gay marriage despite the fact that they believe that some people are born gay. When I ask them to articulate why they're opposed to gay marriage, they have a hard time explaining themselves.

When I tell them why I oppose gay marriage, they say "that makes sense, I never thought of it that way, but that's kind of what my gut feeling was, thanks for clarifying it".

Of course, these are people who are already opposed to gay marriage, so it's not like I've convinced anybody who favors gay marriage to change their mind. But at least I've helped them to understand their own feelings so that they can better articulate them in the future.

My arguments won't work for everybody, but I'm convinced that there is a certain segment of the population who feel the same way that I do.

My arguments won't work for everybody, but I'm convinced that there is a certain segment of the population who feel the same way that I do.

It is what you said that you believe that concerns me…

I happen to think that there are many people who are born gay. Let's call them "authentically gay". I also happen to think that the line in the Bible that says "a man shall not lie with another man" is addressed to heterosexuals, and G-d is saying "it's okay for THEM to do that, but don't YOU go mimicking their behavior.

For your first postulate to be true, item b. below would have to be false. Unfortunately, for your “belief,” the Center for Disease Control statistics solidly support the assertion in item b.

Additionally, you would have to ignore item d. below. Again, unfortunately, for your belief, the fact that homosexual practitioners abandon that life style (and there are many who do) solidly supports item d.

Can you explain how accomplish this bit of mental gymnastics in face of factual evidence to contrary?

4) Biological/Psychological Assertion: Homosexual behavior is contrary to the natural function of sex and normal human social behavior.

a. Procreation is impossible to exclusively homosexual behavior practitioners.
b. If homosexuality were a genetic anomaly, it would appear in the population at much lower incidence than is observed.
c. Homosexual behaviors observed (Skinner, et al) in non-human animals are neurotic, abnormal singularities and require artificial, forced conditions (e.g., overcrowding) and is not seen in the normal habitat and behavior of these animals.
d. Homosexual behavior is a conscious choice by its practitioners… homosexual “orientation”(if it exists) no more requires an individual to participate in homosexual behavior than heterosexual “orientation” requires an individual to participate in rape, bigamy, prostitution or any other sexual activity.

As for your “beliefs” about the Biblical references, you were previously confronted with irrefutable evidence that they are erroneous in the extreme. However, you have ignored the evidence. How much longer will you “plow ahead” with such error?

the statistics I have read identify Sweden as having one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world.

American socialists like to portay Europe as the secular socialist paradise. This is nonsense, of course.

Violent crime rates in Europe are now significantly higher than in the US.

America the Safe: Why Europe's Crime Rates Have Surpassed Ours

Even Sweden, once the epitome of cosmopolitan socialist prosperity, now has a crime victimization rate 20 percent higher than that of the United States.

It is a good article and food for thought. It is certainly true that in Britain Sweeden is held up as a poster boy of governance and even the Conservative Party under it's new leader cannot get away from prefacing nearly every new policy declaration with 'proven in sweeden'.

I do think the author leads himself open to some challenge on the one newspaper article he picks up on. I would love to know the actual statistics as if they are true they would be great ammo to have in the locker. However, I need more background before I raise these....

• There is more crime in Sweden than in New York City, though they are comparable in population.

That would have been terrifying in the mid 80s, but my understanding now is that non blue collar crime in New York is comparable or better than most every similar population center on the planet!

• Drug abuse is rampant, with the number of deaths from overdoses having doubled in the past 10 years.

From what to what?

• Sweden has one of the highest incidences of rape in the world.

Recorded rape? Rape convictions? The later would change the spin.

• Burglaries are so numerous that many citizens have stopped reporting them, because the police are overloaded and cannot undertake to investigate them all anyway.

Not data. Heresay and opinion.

• Attacks on money transports (highway robbery) are so frequent that the transporters are threatening to quit, thereby effectively closing ATM’s all over the country.

Ditto

• Violent outdoor muggings are becoming routine, having increased 15% last year alone.

From what to what?

• In Stockholm, the police recently admitted having lied when they claimed to have neutralized some 130 of the city’s most prominent gangsters; in reality, their sting operation was a bust.

Local politics.

• Swedish courts are plagued with perjurious police officers who routinely lie to support fellow cops in trouble.

Would need examples. 'plagued' is a strong word.

Presumably though the author must have something to back up his assertions (the article is an Op-Ed so to be fair he doesn't have to source every statement) - I'm relecutant to use them though without real data. Anyone any links to any real data. It's important. My government is very keen we morph to the Swedish model so I need this data!