Posted on 01/29/2006 11:14:04 AM PST by John Jorsett
After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.
The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.
SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.
It really could have... Had I any intelligence at all, I would have bought a chronograph and seen that the bullets were moving at nearly 1200 fps! That's OK for a 90gr 9mm bullet, but not a 165gr bullet!
Amazingly, the barrel didn't bulge. That's a terrific little - well, not so little, it's a full sized service pistol - gun. Quite accurate, and fun to shoot. I was quite the competitor in my USPSA days with that gun... I had 4 spare magazines on my Ernie Hill Speed Leather rig... First off, the holster and belt are damed heavy, given the amount of leather and steel in both. Add in the pistol with a 17 round fully loaded mag, and 4 additional fully loaded mags, by the time I had finished shooting, it was amazing that I didn't have my pants down around my ankles LOL! After the first time, it was brought to my attention that I really didn't need to have 80+ rounds on my belt in a 20 round course of fire! lol. It sure cut back on the weight!
Mark
I own a couple of 1911's and one Beretta 92F. I love the 92F for punching holes in paper and shooting beer cans, it's a fun gun and inexpensive shooter for sure. However, I carry one of my 1911's for personal protection as they will knock down a man on the first shot regardless of where he is hit. Being that the 9mm selection was an accomodation to NATO's standardization strategy, I say give all of them to our French and German "friends" - they will never use them in combat anyway.
I have no doubt that the .45 is a quality piece.
Mark
China? They brainwash their soldiers as badly as the mullahs do terrorists. In North Korea they used a human wave attack, knowing full well that 90% to 99% of them were going to die.
Iran? It may not be official, but they forfitted Geneva protection the moment they started using terrorists.
North Korea? No need to even worry about it. We would NEED tactical nuclear weapons, their active army is bigger than China's active army (that is not counting reserves).
We can agree to disagree, but I belive we should use whatever gives us the best advantage. Ultimatly that would save the lives of our soldiers.
Bttt
I like this.
Thank you all for the trip down memory lane. My late husband was a part-time gunsmith, and thanks to him, I actually understood what you all were saying. He would be thrilled to know the govt. has finally come to it's senses.
That's where the art of deal making becomes the paramount issue! A good dealmaker can cut an agreement for future orders, repairs, spare parts, accessories, etc. IOW, H&K may cut the initial price to make the deal. Heck, I would. Good business.
See my post 216
Aside from the caliber/make/model debate, has anyone seen confirmation of this? I've been looking at defenselink.mil, but haven't seen anything related to the pistol change.
As discussed with ex-soldier I am a fan of a external hammer gun vs the internal striker for a combat handgun exposed to dirt and sand etc .....
Thus I elimanate the glock for that reason. I carried a Glock 18 select fire rig in the first Desert Storm and kept it very clean , carried in a sholder rig under my BDU's over my t-shirt yet it had a number of misfires , jams etc albeit kept very clean. We fired it a lot on the range and I cleaned it on a regular daily basis yet it was a jamamatic in the deserts fine dry concrete like dust we lived in. I dumped it to our supply troop and grabbed two 1911A1's w/ a dozen mags and never looked back, never had a jam and it worked very well in that same enviornment.
Something to be said for a less that EDM like fit for a combat weapon exposed to the elements......
One thing I did do on my personal 1911A1's was to add what I call sand cuts in the exterior of the barrel and dust cover per the suggestion of a competition shooter that fired hundreds, aka 900, without cleaning. The cuts vs no cuts allowed for the abnormal number of rounds to be fired without cleaning the weapon in a clean competition environment.
Now configure a dirty natural environment with a musch less number of spare rounds carried and one may see the validity of such a "tweek"....... My personal 1911A1 as ya know is a meltdown goobermint model from clark on a springfield frame and slide w/o sights.
I like the 1911 design best and I also carry the glocks and sigs as stated.......Yet the 1911A1 is a natural point shooter for me proven in my IDPA and shoothouse practice.
Each person has a choice as a civilian to obtain what works best for them due their size, financial concerns and needs due the threat they may encounter in their environment. The average grunt has no such choice so a common ground must be found by a bean counter and a field testing hammer monkey.
Personally I'd demand a common caliber and issue a standard sidearm yet allow the troop to carry what they want to purchase with a given "chit". If said purchase chit allowed 800 dollars and they wanted the 2000 dollar custom flavor then they pony up the spare 1200 themselves. Mandate a minimum of 12 spare mags along with the handgun and if it breaks then they are SOL and down to the primary issue longgun only unless they pack a spares pack for field repair.
For what it's worth as I type this a G21 with a streamlight M3 rail light is sitting on the desk next to me......:o)
It's my "housegun" !
Stay safe GR !
I have more faith in GLOCK than in Springfield's M1 Garand.
A lot more.
Yeah , weld up a steel box with a lip, add a internal piano hinge and roll into the steel an O-ring weather /dust shield recess and a key lock or push button combo etc (get as fancy as ya want)....
Make it to fit what ya want to carry and what your vehicle will allow due any mechanicals under the floor board you'll cut. Add some closed cell foam or dynamat and easily carry spare cash , ammo, handguns etc
I'll look, but it may take a while.
It's roughly pear shaped, or tear drop shaped and has a wind up belt inside to set up the rotary feed like the original 10 round. It's not one of the banana clip 30 or 50 round ones that were so prevelant about 15 years ago.
Agree.....LOL !
The can't piss me off anymore as I'm too old to play !
I will say this.... I go with others I carry a 1911A1. I go alone I carry the 9MM HiCap's. Call it my personal logistics theory.
Okay, first, the stock beretta 92F shoots well, I have killed groundhogs at over 60 yards with one (corbon 115's),and have witnesses. Second, most military 45's that guys handled were shot loose over the years, properly tightened they do wonders.The military has to use ball ammo, Geneva convention and all. The 9mm penetrates well,and is flat shooting, but lacks stopping power. The 357 sig and 40 S&W would perform similarly in full metal jacket. The 45 acp is better in ball for stopping power, but still not perfect. Rumor has it the sig 220 is the leader in consideration.It's a shame the military decides to go with forgein manufacturers for our small arms (beretta 92f, m240&m249 FN machine guns, FN for the m-16,etc.)
I'll betcha my buddy can build the thing. He's got welding and cutting equipment. :-) I'm thinking seriously now about doing something like this on the wife's truck!
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