Posted on 01/29/2006 11:14:04 AM PST by John Jorsett
After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.
The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.
SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.
The cops tried that, it didn't work, which is why the cops have gone to the 40 S&W and the 45 ACP.
NOTE THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARD GLOCK(my statement) I feel that you might be perceiving this as a blanket attack on the glock, it is not intended to be, I just have some reservations about some design decisions that they made earlier on in their .45 and .40 cal line. As I have stated before I believe they have corrected the situation in current production. This kind of occurrence can and has happened to other companies. I also feel that glock could have handled it in a better way but they were probably doing it the way their lawyers told them to.
Well, not all .45's do I suppose, but I'll bite. What is that long magazine thingamajig that holds cartridges in a vertical feed and inserts into the handle of the Colt 1911 .45 ACP if it is not a clip?
Question: What places are available in urban areas for practice? I mean, is that a chain of target ranges?
I shot the .45 in 1987 while at OBC. I loved it. Mine was so accurate that I was able to purposefully shot out one of the wooden posts holding the target.
I bet my buddy a beer that I would be able to pull it off, everyone else thought I was just a bad shot...
It also wouldn't hurt if they lengthened the case a few thousanths so it would hold a bit more powder.
The standard .45 ACP load is essentially 6 grains of Unique. If they could up that to 7-8 grains, they would get a significant gain in velocity and energy.
Just a thought.
Are you sure that you are not referring to reports of some 9mm JHP ammo not expanding after going through multiple layers of clothing? I have had a few folks (much smarter than I regarding ballistics) steer me into carrying 147 gr JHP 9mm ammo.
I've shot many rounds of .45 ACP and 9mm and I own both. I am very comfortable with either as a carry weapon.
That is the magazine. Of course there are clips for .45acp too. The 1917 revolvers used half moon clips to hold the rounds. There are also 1/3 moon and full moon clips. Also some of the latter S&W model 25's took half moon clips.
I live in Houston TX, ranges are not a problem here.
"The cops tried that, it didn't work, which is why the cops have gone to the 40 S&W and the 45 ACP."
Ah, the expertise and wisdom of local government.
Well, not all .45's do I suppose, but I'll bite. What is that long magazine thingamajig that holds cartridges in a vertical feed and inserts into the handle of the Colt 1911 .45 ACP if it is not a clip?
a magazine ;-)
I'd stick with the Baretta. Tolerable recoil, gets the job done. Then again, I also carry a .40, because I too fear that the 9mm isn't enough.
**.45's don't have clips.**
The M1911 .45 does. Click the history link on this page.
http://www.sightm1911.com/
2 minutes for illegal projectile...
I have an XD-9 and love it. It is my daily carry weapon. I'm going to sell a couple of old guns to buy an XD-45.
Although I now understand what you are saying, I don't quite agree.
Although a clip can be a device for charging the magazine of a weapon (stripper clips), it is also a magazine from which cartridges directly feed into the chamber. Your reference to full, half, partial moon clips for pop out or break apart revolver cylinders applies to the latter, yet it also applies to a removable feeder magazine.
It would be most accurate to say that the device in question is a clip AND a removable magazine. To be super technical, it is a clip until inserted, upon which it becomes the magazine.
In such cases of user preferred terminology, you have to at some point concede to the common vernacular. But you do as you wish, you might just be a trend setter.
Accurate Arms came out with that disclaimer when people started blowing up 40 cal. pistol using AA#5 trying to hotrod the already hot 40S&W. SAAMI pressure rating for it is 35,000psi. What AA did there was basically say that any blowups in ANY pistol were not their problem as MOST pistol do not have fully supported chambers. H&K being one of the few exceptions.
As to Glock changing their barrels, I can tell you first hand that my G21, which is only two years old, leaves a whole lot of case hanging out in the air over the feedramp. Never had a problem with it. Of course, the 45ACP is a lower pressure round than the 40.
As to your comments about case failures and what they can cause, we will have to disagree. Common sense should tell anyone that if a case fails, pressure is immediately released down the mag well. No barrel splitting could occur from that. An obstruction would cause a split barrel, as you said. As could a double charge of fast powder. But is a case of severe over pressure, not a lack of support in the chamber.
I bought six Berettas to train lieutenants at Quantico...if they change pistols I'll be selling those!
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I have been guilty of calling a revolver a pistol and also committed the terrible sin of saying .45 Long Colt, when of course it is officially the .45 Colt.
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