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SUPREME COURT UPHOLDS OREGON'S SUICIDE LAW
ap ^

Posted on 01/17/2006 7:07:26 AM PST by SoFloFreeper

BREAKING ON THE AP WIRE:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court has upheld Oregon's one-of-a-kind physician-assisted suicide law, rejecting a Bush administration attempt to punish doctors who help terminally ill patients die.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: 10thamend; americantaliban; assistedsuicide; badjudges; blackrobedthugs; chilling; clintonjudges; clintonlegacy; cultureofdeath; cultureofdisrespect; deathcult; deportthecourt; doctorswhokill; firstdonoharm; gooddecision; goodnightgrandma; hippocraticoath; hitlerwouldbeproud; homocide; hungryheirs; hungryhungryheirs; individualrights; judicialrestraint; mylifenotyours; nazimedicine; ruling; scotus; slipperyslope; statesrights
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To: muawiyah
I am not picking on anyone when I say that these threads become personal grudge matches rather than reasoned debate about the subject in question.

With that in mind I would like to get back to the question at hand: Assisted Suicide (if that is an accurate term to describe the law as written in Oregon).

Does anyone know of any specific cases in Oregon in which a patient has been forced/coerced into killing themselves using the law as it has been in effect over the last decade? Has it provided a "dignified death" as its proponents claim? Of these 20 or so patients a year, have any of their diagnoses about their near death status been refuted? Are the safeguards that the proponents say are in place sufficient to ensure that only those who are close to death (6 months) and legally of sound are able to get a doctor to prescribe an over-dosage of barbituates (not sure which specific drug is used) capable of killing the patient?

These are just a few of the crucial questions which must be asked in terms of Oregon's law. The supreme court case wasn't discussing these broad topics, but was rather ruling on whether Attorney General Ashcroft had the power to question what a proper use for a legally obtainable drug was on a state to state basis. The SCOTUS ruled he overstepped his bounds in this case. Should congress like to change the law, it is free to do so. The attorney general, on the other hand, does not have the power to determine on his own what drugs can be used in what context. At least that is my take on it. Please feel free to poke holes in this, that's why it.s a debate.
841 posted on 01/17/2006 5:30:57 PM PST by cccp_hater (Just the facts please)
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To: Gondring
I well undestand the technical legal difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia.

You'll have plenty of euthanasia in Oregon in consequence of this assisted suicide law. Only the grossly uninformed and the foolish would fail to understand that.

842 posted on 01/17/2006 5:31:37 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: muawiyah
Writing a prescription is tantamount to administering the drug.

A statement not supported by fact. Many of those who are given the lethal prescriptions have chosen not to use them. They have them in case they decide to, but ultimately did not. Or are you saying that writing a prescription is tantamount to preventing their suicides?

843 posted on 01/17/2006 5:33:30 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: djf
Sounds like Kervorkian is a free man...

No, because Kervorkian violated and was charged under a state law.

This SCOTUS ruling upheld state's rights in this matter and said that the Feds don't have a constitutional dog in this fight.

844 posted on 01/17/2006 5:33:38 PM PST by Polybius
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To: JCEccles

And please show me the evidence of that.


845 posted on 01/17/2006 5:34:13 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: mvpel
If you have the right to hire a doctor to help you commit suicide, the idea that you don't have the right to risk injury by not wearing a seatbelt is rather absurd.

They didn't decide that the people have any rights. They decided that the states have rights. Rights are to be divided up between state and federal governments. If there are any rights left over that nobody else wants, those go to the people.

846 posted on 01/17/2006 5:34:27 PM PST by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: cccp_hater
Assisted suicide and euthanasia gray into one another. These decisions will be made by less than scrupulous doctors, nurses, and other care givers in the very broad gray shadows of hospitals and rest homes far from prying eyes. You'll be amazed by how many patients will "beg" doctors to help them die. It'll all be there on the charts. Just ask them. Oh, you won't be able to. They'll be dead.

Doctors and patients are killing patients now just to get them out of the way. This law legitimizes it and gives them a way to pitch it in a way that guarantees they will never be held accountable.

Oregon is the nation's first official death hell hole. I pity the people who live (and will be murdered by health care staff) there.

847 posted on 01/17/2006 5:39:29 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: EternalVigilance
I don't believe that anyone has the 'right' to 'cede their life' to anyone. Their life belongs to the Creator, not to themselves, their families, their community or the state.

That's all well and good, but don't mistake your ideology for the law. There's a huge difference.

Certainly they didn't base it on any foundational principle of America.

Yeah, but so what? There wasn't any "foundational principle" at issue. The only question before the Court was whether the Attorney General construed the statute and regulations properly.

This is a supremely RADICAL decision which flies in the face of everything this country once stood for.

Actually, Congress could pass a law overturning this tomorrow. That makes the decision anything but radical.

Perhaps they are basing it in penumbras and emanations?

Perhaps you should just read the opinion. That might help.

848 posted on 01/17/2006 5:43:22 PM PST by Sandy
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To: SoFloFreeper

Let's not get spun up and start losing track of what really happened here...

The Court did not uphold Oregon's assisted suicide law so much as it shot down the ham-fisted attempt to overturn it by the Justice Department. There is an enormous difference between the two.

It is still entirely possible for Congress to pass a federal statute, that is Constitutional, that outlaws assisted suicide. That would be an effective way to ban Doctor-asisted suicide, if that is the will of the Congress. Absent a Federal law that might have over-ruled Oregon law, the way that John Ashcroft chose to pursue overturning Oregon's Law was not the best way to attack the problem, and was doomed from the start. I do not question his motivation, just the method that was chosen.

This is a State's Rights issue, and that is how the Court appears to have ruled. It's early , and I have not read the ruling, but I've seen enough reports from different sources to be satisfied with that explanation.


849 posted on 01/17/2006 5:45:37 PM PST by Bean Counter ("That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.")
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To: Gondring
Once again you claim the smaller sin (telling lies) is of greater concern than the larger sin (murdering your fellow human beings).

Keep trying though. We all think it's in everyone's best interests that you run moral condundrums through your mind frequently.

850 posted on 01/17/2006 5:48:33 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: Polybius

The ruling didn't touch on state's rights. Instead, in touched on John Ashcraft.


851 posted on 01/17/2006 5:50:09 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: antiRepublicrat

LOL - I wonder how many people will be too lazy to read it for themselves, and just take your word for it.


852 posted on 01/17/2006 5:56:09 PM PST by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Brytani
Does the Oregon law allow Doctors who, who moral or religious reasons, to refuse to prescribe life-ending medicataion to terminal patients?

From http://www.ohsu.edu/ethics/guidebook/chapter15.pdf

"If the attending physician decides not to participate, he/she promptly needs to provide the patient with a referral or a source of information about participating providers. Physician-assisted suicide is a legal medical practice, and the attending physician who declines to participate may not abandon the patient. A timely referral to a participating provider or to a resource for information concerning participating providers should minimize claims of abandonment."

853 posted on 01/17/2006 5:56:37 PM PST by TChad
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To: Lunatic Fringe
Okay. There are tough times in a persons life. You've been there, I've been there. And when there I cursed and slammed and threw things. I was the one dying, and vomiting until I had no more vomit, just dry heaves of bile and bile and bile. Withering away. No quite as bad as the sad situation you describe, and thank G-d, with risky surgerys and care, I recovered.

It happens that I never damned G-d for all the sh&t and misery at the time because at the time I didn't care if he existed or not. And at the time, when I recovered -- and I was determined to recover, I didn't thank Him. Again because I didn't care if He Was or Was Not.

Live and learn. Now I say "Thanks, G-d!"

Yet I could not, being a fiendishly honest person, now say "Thanks!", if my thank you included just the recovery, for a return to status quo ante (that is, the situation prior to my becoming sick) say when a thief steals your property and then later returns it deserves not thanks to the thief.

My thanks is for all of it. All the aggravation, sickness and misery, all the recovery, all as if together at once, so to speak.

No theif was Providence to so wreck and pain me, for in all that was some light of the spirit to be found, that has been over thirty years in the finding. Never should a person ask for such misery, or as your case, to see a loved dear person in such misery. Misery is misery! Yet, as long as some life exists it is never total, and has within some precious spark to be found by the hunter.

One's life is not one's own, you are only a bailee with a bailment. You life's primal duty is as custodian to that life vouchsafed to you, to hold more dear -- as is the rule in bailments -- then your own property.

854 posted on 01/17/2006 6:11:48 PM PST by bvw
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To: Wormwood

Your living will invalidated? It should, G-d help us all, never have been considered valid in the first place with regard to that circumstance.


855 posted on 01/17/2006 6:16:29 PM PST by bvw
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To: TexConfederate1861

I have mixed feeling about assisted suicide.

I just don't want the federal gov't involved with
what everybody does or does not like.


856 posted on 01/17/2006 6:29:18 PM PST by greasepaint
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To: Gondring
Again, show me where in the Oregon law there's the slightest bit of "premeditated killing of innocent people"? This is not about euthanasia; it's about suicide!

I haven't gone back to read my previous comments, but I don't believe I used the word euthanasia. I know very well that it's a law which makes it possible for physicians to provide a patient with the means to painlessly commit suicide.

I am not commenting from a legal or technical perspective, although I think suicide may still be a crime in some states and I am almost positive that assisting in a suicide still is. I am commenting from a moral perspective. It is, or was, a crime because suicide violates a moral precept that historically has been accepted in Christian/western nations for many years. Laws against suicide were based on a belief that human life is created by a higher power, God in the Christian's view, and only God has the rightful authority to end the life he created. God can and does delegate that authority to government on certain conditions, and to individuals on certain, very limited conditions. But suicide doesn't meet any of those conditions. Suicide still amounts to self-inflicted premeditated murder as a matter of morality whether or not it's legal as a matter of law.

The OR law turns that age-old moral precept on it's head not only by removing the criminal aspect of the act, but also by enabling a person to commit suicide more easily and efficiently with the aid of medical advice and by access to the means of committing the act. If the OR law involved a felony crime instead of the de-criminalized but immoral act of suicide, a person who knowingly and willingly provided the weapon used to commit the crime would be guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal act. Viewed from a moral perspective, it still is.

857 posted on 01/17/2006 6:33:46 PM PST by epow (Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, II Cor 3:17)
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To: Canard
That's not what's provided for by the Oregon law.

OK, to be technically correct, exchange "administering" to "providing" the fatal dose. Same result no matter which party administers the drug, and morally abhorrent in either case.

858 posted on 01/17/2006 6:40:08 PM PST by epow (Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, II Cor 3:17)
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To: Mr. Brightside
Murder, for instance, is a state crime, unless committed on federal property (post office, national forest), or committed against a federal officer in the line of duty, or unless the perp crossed state lines.

Indeed. But if, say, Vermont refused to make murder illegal, do you not think that the federal government would step in and prosecute murder? Of course, and rightly so. This is one of those few areas that the government is supposed to stick its nose in.

859 posted on 01/17/2006 6:49:18 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: SoFloFreeper

Great decision, but hugely disappointing behavior by Scalia and Thomas. Our only two even semi-libertarian justices are often ready to heave principle out the window for an outcome they prefer. Unless of course, like Thomas on medical marijuana they can have their cake and eat it too: a dissent but knowing the outcome is going their way. Too bad. No better than the liberals.


860 posted on 01/17/2006 6:52:20 PM PST by memetic
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