Posted on 01/07/2006 10:40:29 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin
Gov. Jim Doyle vetoed a Republican-authored bill Friday that would have forced doctors to tell women seeking an abortion after their fifth month of pregnancy the fetus could suffer pain.
When a fetus can feel pain is a matter of debate in the medical community. The bill's supporters say some research supports the theory that a fetus can feel pain at the 20th week of pregnancy. Opponents say none of those claims have been proved.
Doyle, a Democrat, said no evidence conclusively proves when a fetus can feel pain. The Republican-controlled Legislature shouldn't be allowed to decide what is scientific fact, he said.
"It would be reckless to inject a requirement that doctors communicate unproven science to their patients during an already difficult and sometimes traumatic time," Doyle wrote in his veto message. "This bill intrudes on the doctor-patient relationship ... and contravenes the requirement that doctors provide objective and accurate information to their patients."
State Sen. Glenn Grothman, R-West Bend, the bill's main author in that body, accused Doyle of doing the bidding of pro-choice groups.
Bob Delaporte, a spokesman for Assembly Speaker John Gard, R-Peshtigo, accused Doyle of "ignoring the science on this one."
Women seeking abortions in Wisconsin already must be given information on alternatives to ending their pregnancies. They must wait 24 hours after a counseling session to have the procedure performed.
The bill would have required doctors tell women in their 20th week or beyond that:
• Their fetuses have the physical structures to feel pain.
• Some evidence shows 20-week-old fetuses try to evade stimuli in a way that could be interpreted as a response to pain in an infant or adult.
• Some evidence shows abortion methods used starting in the 20th week can cause a fetus substantial pain.
Three other states - Arkansas, Georgia and Minnesota - have similar notification requirements, and federal legislation is pending.
Kathy Markeland is an associate director in the Wisconsin Catholic Conference, which lobbied for the bill. She said the governor's veto was disappointing.
"We viewed this really as a bill that provided additional information to women about a procedure they would be undergoing," Markeland said. "People have the right to know and have adequate information even about the potential there might be pain experienced."
But Chris Taylor, political director for Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin, which lobbied against the measure, said the bill was based on "junk science."
"It's another attempt ... for the majority party to act like they're physicians," she said.
Ghouls.
Would he veto a bill requiring slaughterhouses to medicate cattle before they're slaughtered? I'll bet not!!!!!
Here's some "junk science" to judge whether a baby at this stage feels any pain:
"THE FIFTH MONTH - OBVIOUSLY PREGNANT
Many mothers feel this month of pregnancy – from the 17th week through the 21st – is one of the most rewarding. You're probably feeling pretty good, and it's now obvious to the whole world that you're growing a baby. Expect to be on the receiving end of the perks of being pregnant as well as the unwanted advice. You go public in your lead role in the most awesome drama of life. Better yet, you can now feel your little co-star moving. And this month you reach a milestone in your pregnancy – believe it or not, you are halfway there!"
TEN GROWTH MILESTONES AT SEVENTEEN TO TWENTY WEEKS
By the end of this month you can feel your cantaloupe-sized uterus at the level of your navel. Other growth milestones include:
1. Your baby weighs around three-quarters of a pound, and measures between 8-10 inches long. This is about half the length baby will be at birth.
2. Baby's legs, now around the size of your little finger, continue growing, become more muscular, and make their presence felt as tiny flutter kicks.
3. He waves his growing, but still tiny, arms. On ultrasound, you may see him sucking his thumb and making a fist.
4. Baby hair is beginning to appear on his upper lid, eyebrows, and head.
5. His skin, previously thin and transparent, now begins to accumulate fat deposits.
6. Baby's oil glands start to secrete a waxy substance that mixes with his dead skin cells to form a cheesy coating, called the Vernix caseosa, which acts like a sort of wetsuit protecting the little swimmer's skin from chapping.
7. Fine, temporary hair—called lanugo (meaning "wool")—covers most of his body and helps to hold the vernix on the skin.
8. Baby's digestive system functions better now, and he regularly swallows amniotic fluid and urinates into it.
9. By this month, baby's middle ear structures have formed, enabling baby to hear sound.
10. Still, baby cannot yet survive outside the womb at this stage because his lungs are still undeveloped.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T011100.asp#T011106
BFLR
Well, Gov., the baby either does or does not feel pain at 20 weeks. If the baby does not feel pain then we may assume it is permisable to be unconcerned about the pain threshold of a 5 month premature infant. If the 5 month zygote does feel pain then abortion is torture. Where do you put your money and morals?
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Just what I thought. So a 24 week old baby in the NICU feels no pain? Why don't we get Mr Doyle to prove it and watch what happens when these kids have blood drawn. If they cry, then Doyle has to resign for sanctioning torture.
A--h---s.
"If the baby does not feel pain then we may assume it is permisable to be unconcerned about the pain threshold of a 5 month premature infant. If the 5 month zygote does feel pain then abortion is torture."
Great point!
Democrats prove once again that they are the party of murder, treason and socialism.
Thanks for the ping!
Every day, Doyle makes it so much easier for Walker, doesn't he? Tee-Hee. I'm so glad that the politicos in Madistan live in their own little bubble. It's so much fun to see their stunned expressions when they realize that the rest of the state doesn't think like they do...as they're led out the door! ;)
I guess you could say the governor doesn't "feel their pain".
Translation: Governor vetoes bill that will cause child killers pain.
He is a democrat. He wants your money and he has no morals.
I'm 100% pro-choice. Don't think women/girls should even have to give their names, much less submit to "information" spiels or "waiting periods", to get an abortion. And I'm frankly appalled by the lack of regulation re fetal anesthesia in abortion. I know the UK has some laws requiring this, though I can't recall the exact details. But there don't seem to be any laws or even professional "standard practice" guidelines in the US. Last year there was some proposed legislation (which went nowhere) to require abortion clinics to inform patients beyond a certain stage of pregnancy of the "option" of fetal anesthesia for an additional charge. Option???? Quick, humane killing is legally required for pets and food animals in this country. Why do we even need to have a debate on this where abortion is concerned? I really don't get it.
I'm afraid the answer is a combination of two things:
1) Anti-abortion activists who oppose any abortion at all on religious/philosophical grounds, thinking they stand a better chance of outlawing it completely, if they keep it as inhumane as possible, by NOT agitating for fetal anesthesia requirements; and
2) Pro-choice activists who oppose any regulation whatsoever of abortion, on the knee-jerk theory that any kind of regulation -- even an anesthesia requirement that in no way blocks any woman or girl from having an abortion -- is a step down the slippery slope to lots of regulations aimed at making it difficult or impossible to get an abortion.
I'm not saying that all anti-abortion activists or all pro-choice activists fit those descriptions, but I think there are a huge number in both camps who are guilty as charged.
Stupid debates about the exact stage at which a fetus can feel pain should be cut off. It's just not that expensive to poke a needle into a fetus and inject an anesthetic. At the very earliest stages of pregnancy, a fetus is simply too small to even accurately target with a needle, and certainly has no capacity to feel pain anyway. A heartbeat is a nice clear dividing line, even though it almost certainly precedes ability to feel pain by several weeks. If there's a heartbeat, there should be a legal requirement for an anesthetic injection, or for very early stage fetuses with heartbeats, a single injection that quickly stops the heart. The extra cost of this can't possibly be more than the costs being borne by the various interest groups engaging in endless competing propaganda campaigns on the details of when a fetus can feel pain, what constitutes "pain", etc.
Another good Catholic rat politician. They make me want to puke, but not as much as the other good Catholics that vote for scumbags like this.
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