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Posted on 01/02/2006 7:39:23 PM PST by gregwest
CHESAPEAKE - A 21-year-old Mormon missionary died Monday night after he and his partner were shot while going door-to-door in the Deep Creek area.
The other missionary, age 19, was in serious condition at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital Monday night, Chesapeake police said.
Police did not release the victims’ identities.
According to police the two missionaries were walking in the 2600 block of Elkhart Street off George Washington Highway about 6 p.m. when they were approached by another man. The man shot them both and fled on foot.
One of the victims ran to The Charity House, a nearby nursing home, to seek help.
Police described the suspect as a black male, about 5’10’’ wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and jeans. He was last seen heading toward Janice Lynn Court, which backs up to Elkhart.
The two missionaries had bicycles, but were not riding them at the time.
A group from the Mormon church, known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, waited in the consultation room at the Norfolk General emergency room Monday night. They declined to comment.
According to the church’s official web site there are more than 60,000 Mormon missionaries, mostly young men and women who volunteer to spread the church’s message for one and a half to two years all over the world, at their own expense.
There are apartment buildings at the end of Elkhart Street, and some residents could not leave or return to their homes for a time Monday night.
Police, working in a moderate rain, had the street blocked off a short way off George Washington Highway.
“This is close to home,’’ said resident Bobby Gatling. He has lived on the block for two years. “Nothing like this has ever happened here before.’’
Anyone with information about this incident is asked to call the Crime Line at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP.
Reach Jim Washington at (757) 446-2536 or jim.washington@pilot online.com.
I didn't claim to know the boy. I have sympathy for his family and friends and appreciation for those posters here who used it as a forum to send prayers to heaven for the boys and their families. I do believe that was the original point of the post and many latched onto it immediately. I don't believe that it is appropriate to bash a religion during an announcement of a tragedy involving that religion's preachers. I don't believe I have seen that same reaction on some of the other posts involving religious people, like the family gunned down in their airplane in South America, or the preacher who was electrocuted accidentally, or Christians murdered in foreign countries.
As I said earlier, I believe there is a time and place for everything and this isn't the place for Mormon bashing, especially in the disrespectful tones you and a few others are using. Understand that symbols of a religion (including what you call "funny underwear" or "magic eyeglasses") are sacred to that religion and ought to be treated with some modicum of diplomacy whether you accept their sacred nature or not.
LeftCoastJones I hope when you get over your illness you
become a human again.
wow this thread has become exciting. Too bad the mormons are winning this debate. I now see why they have so many conversions each year.
the mormons, I suppose they are mormons, come back with some pretty good answers, which some I don't understand but such is life. the response they get is is just a switching of arguments, which usually returns to previous arguments for that the mormons already had good answers for. I'm sorry but it seems like you guys are just swimming while the mormons are standing on solid ground in thier responses. looks like you need to be trained better in your mormon bashing.
by the way, frgoff, I'm Baptist,and have never been officially baptized. several Baptist denominations don't really baptize anymore.
God bless all and especailly the families of those involved in this tragedy,
JaRon R.
This is my point, you think your right at whatever the cost.Those who crucified Jesus thought They were right also. You do not have to believe what I believe to be my friend, you just need to work with me toward a comen goal. When ever the right fights among itself, the left cleans house. This young man died doing what he beleived God wanted him to do while not harming anyone. He worked to better himself and help others, wont you do the same?
" If Joseph Smith and God decide for us all to wear holy undergarments, I'm not trying to make a joke, they already have."
You weren't trying to make a joke by mocking something others hold sacred here, either, right?
You know, your example of Paul saying "received" is right on. He saiand wrote things after this, why was this able to be received? Because it wasn't changing the gospel that had already been set out, it wasn't changing the Lord's gospel. Then why did he have to say more? Presumably to further teach the Gospel, or to clarify uncertainties. This is exactly what Joseph Smith and other latter-day prophets have done. They aren't changing Christ's gospel, they aren't adding anything.
Please show me what Mormon theology contradicts anything in the Bible. Not merely something that isn't specifically in there - that's what Paul did, too. Show me something contradictory.
Furthermore, people have been kind enough to sddress all of your doctrinal questions (and jokes in poor taste) concerning mormonism, so why not answer a couple of ours? Here are a few:
1. If faith is all that is needed, then please explain James 2, which clearly states that faith without works availeth a man nothing.
2. If baptism is not necessary, how do you explain John 3:5 (Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.)?
3. You say baptism for the dead is some outlandish concept - then why is it that Paul acknowledged and endorsed baptism for the dead in 1 Corinthians 15:29?
That's just a start. I would appreciate it if CalJones could answer this without resorting to name-calling, damning of others, and jokes in bad taste, but I would also appreciate sincere responses from anyone less offensively outspoken who can explain to me these issues. Part of this is indeed an admittedly un-Christlike retort to Cal's vitriol, but part of it is also a sincere question I would like to have answered.
Thank you JaRon.
If you go know that my prayers go with you, a young elder has crossed the vail and my wife and I have spent time thinking and praying for his family. We have no children of our own but have sent out several on missions, both near and far, and have one in the Northern Territory's at this time. May God grant this family peace.
I will answer. But where, my Mormon friend, did I do any name calling?
"I will answer. But where, my Mormon friend, did I do any name calling?"
I think some of the worst were deleted, but for starters, I believe you have called Mormons cultists, false teachers, ignorant, and outmoded. There are probably more, but these are a few I'm pretty certain can be attributed to you.
FWIW this is really an inappropriate thread to be questioning the motives of Mormon missionaries or the correctness of their doctrine.
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: (Ecc 3:1 KJV)
This not the time.
No, this is a discussion about a young man's brutal and senseless murder.
As a former Mormon I find your zeal misplaced and wholly ineffective to its intended purpose.
Joseph Smith's claim has yet to be accepted.
The Bible of what we have of it was decided under the state of political uprise.
Now Constantine was given a vision to put the symbol of the Cross on his Uniforms
Although greatly outnumbered, Constantine had been advised in a dream to put the sign of the cross on his soldiers shields and he would prevail in battle.
Many like to romantisized this by saying Constantine fully embraced Chistianity, but is it not true all we know is what was told to us years laters on Constantine death he asked to be baptized.
Any religion convertion I heard of where one has a vision and one fully embraces the faith they take on the mantel of Christ right away such as in Saul/Paul etc.
They don't wait until their death bed!
Shortly after his victory, Constantine established the new city of Constantinople on the ancient site of Byzantium (now Istanbul) relocating the capitol of the Roman Empire. Located on the Bosphorus, a strategic position between the East and West, it was a strategic move. It also left a large amount of the political baggage in old Rome.
With Christianity now tolerated and embraced by the sole Emperor of the Roman Empire, the fortunes of Christianity surged forward. If Constantine sought a unified religion in which to advance his political agenda, he was to be greatly disappointed. The Christian church was far from unified, itself going through power struggles for leadership.
At best we could say Constantine was a Friend to the Christians!
Constantine died in 337 CE in Nicomedia, a few days after he was baptized into the Christian faith by the Arian bishop Eusebius. His support of Christianity, the building of several churches in Rome (St Peter’s Basilica) and several in Constantinople (Hagia Sophia), and the lifting of the persecutions against Christians earn him the title of founder of Christianity. Whether he embraced the new religion for political or spiritual reasons is now academic; he gave Christianity it’s first important advancement toward becoming what it is today.
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Forbidden Not Lost
Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.
What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as “Protestant", is unrecognizable form either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity begun by Constantine.
There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are “lost”; to the Church they are “forbidden”. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.
One of the more obvious forms of discovery comes from the surviving books themselves, which sight works not present in the existing collection. Also many do not know that the Apocryphal books were actually included in the King James translation until they were officially purged by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885. Other writings also connect many books to the first church. Whatever the number before the purge by the formation of Catholicism by Constantine; even one lost book is a great loss indeed.
We claim no expertise concerning the authenticity of any the lost books and leave this judgment to the reader. We do, however, strongly reject the self-proclaimed authority of any dogmatically motivated and church-controlled mortals who think themselves qualified to make such decisions. One of the most logical and realistic concepts in the Bible is the caution that one should prove all things. We believe that proving the veracity of a given thing is an individual responsibility, which must not, and should not be the duty of those who think themselves better judges.(non-LDS site)
The point is to be able to hear one another than to review, ponder and pray over those things that have loose ends, the LDS believe that the Lord has not left us groping in the dark, but that the Holy Spirit does witness to those things that are of the Lord!
Please show me what Mormon theology contradicts anything in the Bible. Not merely something that isn't specifically in there - that's what Paul did, too. Show me something contradictory.
Mormon belief says that men can become Gods, right ?
The Bible says that there is only one God, ... has only ever been one God, ... and will ever only be one God ...Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
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Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
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Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
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