Posted on 12/28/2005 3:01:53 PM PST by johnnyb_61820
... the idea that the four fundamental forces of physics alone could rearrange the fundamental particles of nature into spaceships, nuclear power plants, and computers, connected to laser printers, CRTs, keyboards and the Internet, appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics in a spectacular way.
Anyone who has made such an argument is familiar with the standard reply: the Earth is an open system, it receives energy from the sun, and order can increase in an open system, as long as it is "compensated" somehow by a comparable or greater decrease outside the system. S. Angrist and L. Hepler, for example, in "Order and Chaos", write, "In a certain sense the development of civilization may appear contradictory to the second law.... Even though society can effect local reductions in entropy, the general and universal trend of entropy increase easily swamps the anomalous but important efforts of civilized man. Each localized, man-made or machine-made entropy decrease is accompanied by a greater increase in entropy of the surroundings, thereby maintaining the required increase in total entropy."
According to this reasoning, then, the second law does not prevent scrap metal from reorganizing itself into a computer in one room, as long as two computers in the next room are rusting into scrap metal -- and the door is open. In Appendix D of my new book, The Numerical Solution of Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations, second edition, I take a closer look at the equation for entropy change, which applies not only to thermal entropy but also to the entropy associated with anything else that diffuses, and show that it does not simply say that order cannot increase in a closed system. It also says that in an open system, order cannot increase faster than it is imported through the boundary. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
Never been through Basic Training, I see. People who have allowed their minds turn to flab through disuse need to have their butts kicked occasionally.
Any ol' FR thread involving C & E?? ;^)
"Huh? Are you saying Katrina came into existence as a result fof divine intervention? And that hurricanes need divine "help" to break up?"
God can bring a storm out of nowhere, and stop it anywhere.
I have to set an example of taking turns, because I'm the adult :-).
Think FedEx, CASTAWAY... ;^)
"When I leave things out in the sun, they tend to deteriorate, not evolve into something more complex."
Like a tree?
True; but what or WHO does the 'combining'?
He did not do so with Katrina. Katrina was observed more closely than any hurrican ever and there was no sign of any supernatural interference.
If you are one of those {poof} types ('cause God said so), you are probably not on the right thread. Divine Fiat is not argumentation.
Actually, Jupiter does have rings.
--Don't bring a math professor to a thermodynamics debate.
That's interesting. Where would thermodynamics be without math professors?
It requires faith to believe his theory, therefore it is a Religion.
Evidently...
"By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be requisite to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported,—and that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracles become,—that the men at that time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible by us,—that the Gospels cannot be proven to have been written simultaneously with the events,—that they differ in many important details, far too important, as it seemed to me to be admitted as the usual inaccuracies of eye witnesses;—by such reflections as these, which I give not as having the least novelty or value, but as they influenced me, I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation. The fact that many fake religions have spread over large portions of the earth like wildfire had some weight with me. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans, and manuscripts being discovered at Pompeii or elsewhere, which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct."
( Charles Darwin in his Autobiography of Charles Darwin, Dover Publications, 1992, p. 62. )
Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
"I think that generally (& more & more as I grow older), but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
( Quoted from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1991, p. 636. )
The more 'possibilities' there are, the less chance that you will have to CHOOSE one.
Especially that pesky one that seems to come to bug you in the middle of the night.
In this case it's the perpetrator of the crime that suffers more than the victim. I am not directly hurt by other people's willful ignorance, but it's like watching an autistic child bang his head against a table.
Yes; 72 ounces worth. (If you are using Arabic numbers in your calculations.)
Sure. Of course. All kinds of things happen with perfect regularity and no driving force.
Ever drive down an expressway where there's a clearly posted 55 mph "speed limit" but no regular enforcement?
Lots of people have an amazing faith in Laws of Nature, alone, and I cannot understand why. They are confident that matter and complex species just mutate themselves into existence. Yet they would not consider themselves "religious" people. I often wonder what is the color of the sky in their world.
The only reason I get involved is because I worry about our kids getting screwed up thinking that when you hit something you can't explain, you basically throw your hands up and say "magic did this." That is very real damage.
No wonder we are losing so badly in worldwide academia.
AhHA... NOW I see the link that's been missing!
Not if you believe in miracles!
"If you are one of those {poof} types ('cause God said so), you are probably not on the right thread. Divine Fiat is not argumentation."
We know. You would detest any Divine Fiat.
Proverbs: 26:5. "Answer a fool according to his folly."
A contradiction is in
Proverbs 26:4. "Answer NOT a fool according to his folly."
Oh? OBSERVED where?
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